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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Police Officials and Procedures > General Police Discussion

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  #351  
Old 08-20-2017, 10:58 AM
David Orsam David Orsam is offline
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Quote:
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Now, I don't say that he was definitely guilty of misconduct, or even probably guilty. But the salient issue, as I see it, is whether PC Mizen considered that there was a real risk that he could be subject to a misconduct inquiry. If so, he had a motive to lie.
The only motive to lie would be if he had been told of a criminal case or an accident.

He wasn't told of either of these things, on any view of the evidence, therefore no motive to lie.

And further there wasn't a single suggestion in 1888 that he could be in any form of trouble for not taking the carmens' particulars. He wasn't even asked at the inquest. It's a wholly modern criticism.
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  #352  
Old 08-20-2017, 06:30 PM
harry harry is offline
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John,
This is from a Judge of that period. "Complete,in the sense of being entirely exhaustive, the manual cannot and does not pretend to be"
And
The duties of the police,are for the most part,defined by statute.
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  #353  
Old 10-28-2017, 02:50 PM
Bridewell Bridewell is offline
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John,
This is from a Judge of that period. "Complete,in the sense of being entirely exhaustive, the manual cannot and does not pretend to be"
And
The duties of the police,are for the most part,defined by statute.
The Police Code seems to have been the earlier version of what would now be termed "Standing Orders", which I was always told were for the instruction of fools and the guidance of the wise.
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  #354  
Old 02-09-2018, 02:37 AM
The Station Cat The Station Cat is offline
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Found this which I thought might be of interest.....

DONALD WATERS (Police Inspector, J). On June 26th, a little after 10 p.m., I heard a whistle in Whitechapel Road—I saw the prisoner running, followed by a number of persons—I gave chase—after running about 100 yards in Ivy Lane, Friday Street, Bath Street, I overtook him in Bath Passage—we struggled—a constable came to my assistance—he continued to struggle, and kicked me in the leg, but did not hurt me much—other roughs got round—he was conveyed to Bethnal Green Police-station by two constables—

Working on the assumption, that Bath Street is just off Brady Street (Beat 2 on the below map). Two Constables come to the Insp's assistance. So one of them must have left their beat, whether that was from (Beat 1 or Beat 5)?

Unless of course one of them was on "Fixed Point" outside Whitechapel Railway Station (not sure whether that was still being manned at 10PM, but either way I further believe that things had to be very direr for a Constable to leave "Fixed Point", so I think it's more likely that one of these Bobbies left his beat?
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  #355  
Old 02-09-2018, 11:11 AM
David Orsam David Orsam is offline
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I further believe that things had to be very direr for a Constable to leave "Fixed Point"
This is a myth.

The rules relating to fixed points had been set down in a Police Order dated 9 August 1871 and featured in General Orders of 1873. This said, in respect of police officers at fixed points:

'In the event of any person springing a rattle, or persistently ringing a bell in the street or in an area, the Police will at once proceed to the spot and render assistance, as in every other case in which Police duties and powers require them to act.'

Sir Charles Warren clarified the position in a Police Order issued on 11 December 1886 which stated:

'A Constable may leave his fixed point, as at present, whenever it becomes necessary in the execution of his duty.'
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  #356  
Old 02-10-2018, 10:58 AM
The Station Cat The Station Cat is offline
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This is a myth.

The rules relating to fixed points had been set down in a Police Order dated 9 August 1871 and featured in General Orders of 1873. This said, in respect of police officers at fixed points:

'In the event of any person springing a rattle, or persistently ringing a bell in the street or in an area, the Police will at once proceed to the spot and render assistance, as in every other case in which Police duties and powers require them to act.'

Sir Charles Warren clarified the position in a Police Order issued on 11 December 1886 which stated:

'A Constable may leave his fixed point, as at present, whenever it becomes necessary in the execution of his duty.'

Interest!!! Yet there are a couple of occasions whereby members of the public had complained about Fixed Point Bobbies not assisting them or fobbing them off, perhaps...............
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  #357  
Old 02-10-2018, 01:12 PM
David Orsam David Orsam is offline
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Interest!!! Yet there are a couple of occasions whereby members of the public had complained about Fixed Point Bobbies not assisting them or fobbing them off, perhaps...............
They had to have good reason to leave a fixed point, just like a constable needed a good reason to leave his beat. Another constable requiring urgent assistance would have been such a reason.
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  #358  
Old 02-12-2018, 02:47 PM
martin wilson martin wilson is offline
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I'm not sure where to post this but this thread seems to be related at least.
I found a description of police beats, albeit going back a bit to 1869 in the Pall Mall Gazette.
This says a chalk system was sometimes used by a policeman who was required to make a mark at certain known points, which the inspecting sergeant would then erase and expect to see on his next round.
Does anybody know if this was still in use in 1888? I've done my due diligence, but it's the only reference I can find. Thanks.
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  #359  
Old 02-14-2018, 03:06 AM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
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Originally Posted by martin wilson View Post
I'm not sure where to post this but this thread seems to be related at least.
I found a description of police beats, albeit going back a bit to 1869 in the Pall Mall Gazette.
This says a chalk system was sometimes used by a policeman who was required to make a mark at certain known points, which the inspecting sergeant would then erase and expect to see on his next round.
Does anybody know if this was still in use in 1888? I've done my due diligence, but it's the only reference I can find. Thanks.
I’ve never heard of that system Martin. It seems an open opportunity for mischief-makers to go around erasing the chalk marks and getting Constables into trouble.
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  #360  
Old 02-14-2018, 03:01 PM
martin wilson martin wilson is offline
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Hi Herlock

That's s a very good point.

I couldn't find any other reference to it, which makes me think it was discontinued shortly afterwards for that very reason.

Thanks.
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