Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Main
   

Introduction
Victims
Suspects
Witnesses
Ripper Letters
Police Officials
Official Documents
Press Reports
Victorian London
Message Boards
Ripper Media
Authors
Dissertations
Timelines
Games & Diversions
Photo Archive
Ripper Wiki
Casebook Examiner
Ripper Podcast
About the Casebook

Most Recent Posts:
General Suspect Discussion: Favorite suspect/s? - by MrBarnett 1 hour and 24 minutes ago.
General Suspect Discussion: Favorite suspect/s? - by Scott Nelson 2 hours ago.
General Suspect Discussion: Favorite suspect/s? - by MrBarnett 3 hours ago.
General Suspect Discussion: Favorite suspect/s? - by MrBarnett 3 hours ago.
General Suspect Discussion: Favorite suspect/s? - by MrBarnett 3 hours ago.
General Suspect Discussion: Favorite suspect/s? - by GUT 3 hours ago.

Most Popular Threads:
General Suspect Discussion: Favorite suspect/s? - (38 posts)
Witnesses: Mizen's inquest statement reconstructed - (9 posts)
A6 Murders: A6 Rebooted - (4 posts)
Witnesses: Caroline Maxwell Alibi ? - (2 posts)
Mary Jane Kelly: Mary Kellys Inquest - (2 posts)
Letters and Communications: I'm not a butcher, I'm not a Yid...... - (1 posts)

Wiki Updates:
Robert Sagar
Edit: Chris
May 9, 2015, 12:32 am
Online newspaper archives
Edit: Chris
Nov 26, 2014, 10:25 am
Joseph Lawende
Edit: Chris
Mar 9, 2014, 10:12 am
Miscellaneous research resources
Edit: Chris
Feb 13, 2014, 9:28 am
Charles Cross
Edit: John Bennett
Sep 4, 2013, 8:20 pm

Most Recent Blogs:
Mike Covell: A DECADE IN THE MAKING.
February 19, 2016, 11:12 am.
Chris George: RipperCon in Baltimore, April 8-10, 2016
February 10, 2016, 2:55 pm.
Mike Covell: Hull Prison Visit
October 10, 2015, 8:04 am.
Mike Covell: NEW ADVENTURES IN RESEARCH
August 9, 2015, 3:10 am.
Mike Covell: UPDDATES FOR THE PAST 11 MONTHS
November 14, 2014, 10:02 am.
Mike Covell: Mike’s Book Releases
March 17, 2014, 3:18 am.

Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Witnesses

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-12-2018, 11:36 AM
Darryl Kenyon Darryl Kenyon is offline
Detective
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 157
Default Caroline Maxwell Alibi ?

This is just a theory but I am wondering if Caroline Maxwell was covering up for her husband in some way. She says in her statement that she had been helping her husband all night. Is it too much of a stretch of the imagination to suggest he was, or she was paid a shilling say, by John Mcarthy to keep an eye out on the court, [one possible explanation is he could have been worried about Mary doing a moonlight flit with the money she owed knowing he would be asking for it next day]. We know that he worked at Crossingham's across the road that night as the deputy lodging keeper. We also know that Sarah Lewis saw someone standing outside the lodging house looking up the court. Could this have been Henry keeping an eye out whilst he had a chance? And in her statement it says, crossed out, talking to a female, could this have been Caroline with Henry? If he failed in his duty to keep an eye out on the court as such and didn't want the wrath of Mcarthy, maybe they rented the property off him where they lived? Perhaps Caroline felt obliged to give Henry, or herself some form of Alibi by inventing the later sighting?

Last edited by Darryl Kenyon : 06-12-2018 at 11:47 AM.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-12-2018, 11:59 AM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 9,102
Default

But Maxwell was not alone in her claim.
__________________
Regards, Jon S.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-12-2018, 12:21 PM
Darryl Kenyon Darryl Kenyon is offline
Detective
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 157
Default

As far as I am aware I thought there was just Maurice Lewis and an unnamed woman in The Times, who perhaps was Caroline Maxwell who thought they saw MJK early morning? Certainly, there was only Caroline at the inquest who left herself open to being cross-examined. An important point in my opinion.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-12-2018, 12:57 PM
packers stem packers stem is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 778
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Kenyon View Post
As far as I am aware I thought there was just Maurice Lewis and an unnamed woman in The Times, who perhaps was Caroline Maxwell who thought they saw MJK early morning? Certainly, there was only Caroline at the inquest who left herself open to being cross-examined. An important point in my opinion.
Well , that's three .How many said that they saw her the night before when there was no argument she was alive ?
Just two .... and one of them was Maurice Lewis himself
We don't know why only Maxwell was called for sure but the smart money would be on the fact that had there been more than one at the inquest saying they saw her the next morning then TOD would have been fixed at after 9 and created a chaotic situation in the shortest of short inquest .

There are no grounds whatsoever for disbelieving Maxwell or Lewis
__________________
You can lead a horse to water.....
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-12-2018, 01:12 PM
richardnunweek richardnunweek is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,245
Default

Hi,
Whilst we are at it.
The letter penned from Maxwell's address to the Yarmouth police, claiming another murder would happen one week from then.
What are the odds that a letter claiming another Ripper murder, would take place, would have been sent from the witness Maxwell's address, which happens to be exactly opposite the murder scene.?
A witness that gave information , which had a bearing on the investigation, surely the word coincidence cannot apply?
Regards Richard.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-12-2018, 03:35 PM
packers stem packers stem is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 778
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by richardnunweek View Post
Hi,
Whilst we are at it.
The letter penned from Maxwell's address to the Yarmouth police, claiming another murder would happen one week from then.
What are the odds that a letter claiming another Ripper murder, would take place, would have been sent from the witness Maxwell's address, which happens to be exactly opposite the murder scene.?
A witness that gave information , which had a bearing on the investigation, surely the word coincidence cannot apply?
Regards Richard.
What was the date and the address on the letter please Richard ?
__________________
You can lead a horse to water.....
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-13-2018, 05:00 AM
Harry D Harry D is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 2,159
Default

Entirely subjective, but I can't see the Ripper killing that late in the morning. While you could argue that he replaced the cover of night with the inside of Miller's Court, it was riskier to kill at a time when there was an increased chance of someone comin' a knockin' for MJK.
__________________
Hail to the king, baby!
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-13-2018, 08:12 AM
richardnunweek richardnunweek is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,245
Default

Hi,
Post 4 Thread 'Was Millers court being watched by the police.'
Just suppose the London police had knowledge of the 14, Dorset street letter sent to the Yarmouth police a week previous.
It could then be conceivable that the address it was sent from , being directly opposite Millers court , might trigger alarm bells , especially if they had figured out the killers pattern of dates.
Regards Richard.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-13-2018, 12:32 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 6,083
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry D View Post
Entirely subjective, but I can't see the Ripper killing that late in the morning. While you could argue that he replaced the cover of night with the inside of Miller's Court, it was riskier to kill at a time when there was an increased chance of someone comin' a knockin' for MJK.
agree. the ripper was a night stalker.

Plus times too tight for Maxwell and m. Lewis to have been correct IMHO.

Then there is the question of the large fire and burnt clothes and kettle, undoubtedly stoked up by the killer at night.
__________________
"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-14-2018, 08:46 AM
Darryl Kenyon Darryl Kenyon is offline
Detective
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 157
Default

I found this article quite interesting regarding the time of Mary's death
Rigor mortis has been reported to commence, under average conditions, within three to four hours after death, and will disappear at 36-48 hours after death; however, the exact period and duration is highly variable. The onset of rigor mortis does not follow a constant or symmetrical order; however, it will typically develop in smaller muscles first - in the eyelids, face, lower jaw and neck, before moving on to the trunk and limbs. There is no measurable shortening of muscles unless the muscles have been subjected to tension prior to onset. When rigor mortis is fully developed, the joints of the body become fixed, and repositioning of the limbs is only possible by brute force - once broken, the rigor will not return, provided it is fully developed. It is traditionally accepted that rigor mortis passes off in the same sequence it developed, to secondary muscle flaccidity.The period of development is influenced by factors such as:Temperature of the environment - High temperatures both accelerates the onset of rigor mortis and shortens its duration; if the temperature is below 10C, development of rigor mortis is considered rare.Muscular activity prior to death - It has been observed that rigor mortis develops and passes quickly in an individual who died after prolonged muscular activity.Disease and unnatural death - Septicaemia and wasting diseases hasten the onset of rigor mortis; death by asphyxia tends to delay it. Similarly, death that is preceded by severe haemorrhaging causes rigor mortis to develop late
All three of the factors mentioned delaying the onset of Rigor Mortis probably happened with MJK. So the likelihood that it was delayed from its usual onset of three to four hours is highly likely.
Ps Also read this in the same article - The greater the surface area exposed, the more quickly the body will cool Think it is fair to say with MJK

Last edited by Darryl Kenyon : 06-14-2018 at 08:58 AM.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.