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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Maybrick, James

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  #201  
Old 08-11-2017, 04:27 PM
Iconoclast Iconoclast is offline
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Originally Posted by John G View Post
There was a brief discussion here about geographical profiling, involving Dan Norder. However, you don't appear to have responded, Sam: http://forum.casebook.org/showthread...Geographic al

I've also just noticed that the very first post in the thread also refers to geographical profiling: http://forum.casebook.org/showthread...t=Geographical
As I said, The Greatest Thread of All ...
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  #202  
Old 08-11-2017, 11:21 PM
John G John G is offline
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As I said, The Greatest Thread of All ...
Erm...I'll take your word for it!
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  #203  
Old 08-12-2017, 03:48 AM
Harry D Harry D is offline
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Holocaust denial continues more than 70 years after the end of the Second World War, we just can't shake it, but just because there are some people who refuse to face facts, it doesn't mean that the Holocaust didn't happen.
Most Holocaust deniers don't deny the persecution of Jews (and other "untermensch") under the Third Reich. They dispute the alleged mass exterminations via the gas chambers. It doesn't really help that such debate is criminalized in some European countries. That only fuels theories about Jewish conspiracies and whatnot.
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  #204  
Old 08-12-2017, 03:55 AM
Observer Observer is offline
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An honest answer about "The Eight Little Whores" would be sufficient.
Here's a one that has slipped in under the radar.

If I remember correctly, but don't quote me, this subject came up a number of years ago. Again I may be incorrect but it went something like this. There was indeed a poem submitted, in 1888, to a newspaper along the lines of "The Eight Little Whores" which featured in Donald McCormick's book. However, Donald McCormick, altered the original poem somewhat, as was his wont, for his book on Jack The Ripper. The thing is, the "Diarist" included in the diary an attempt to formulate a poem with words crossed out, which suggested this draft was very similar in content to the poem which was submitted to the newspaper. The only thing is though they included words which Donbald McCormick had changed, thus implying that they had been influenced by McCormick's book, rather than being the originator of the poem as submitted to the newspaper in 1888.

As I said, I'm not certain that the above is an accurate description of events, but I believe it went something like that.
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  #205  
Old 08-12-2017, 04:10 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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They dispute the alleged mass exterminations via the gas chambers. It doesn't really help that such debate is criminalized in some European countries. That only fuels theories about Jewish conspiracies and whatnot.
It's not just "alleged", though. It's one of the best-attested facts in all of history, and these bozos should rightly be censured for spreading the lie that the mass exterminations didn't happen; it is they who fuel the conspiracy theories, and nobody else.
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  #206  
Old 08-12-2017, 04:28 AM
Harry D Harry D is offline
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It's not just "alleged", though. It's one of the best-attested facts in all of history, and these bozos should rightly be censured for spreading the lie that the mass exterminations didn't happen; it is they who fuel the conspiracy theories, and nobody else.
If it's "one of the best-attested facts in all of history" what does it matter if a lunatic fringe deny it? Like I said, censorship only fuels the fire. Please don't tell me it's to prevent another pogrom. More chance of plaiting fog than something like that ever repeating itself.
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  #207  
Old 08-12-2017, 04:56 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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If it's "one of the best-attested facts in all of history" what does it matter if a lunatic fringe deny it? Like I said, censorship only fuels the fire.
I said "censured" (criticised, condemned) not "censored", Harry. In hindsight, I might have chosen a different word; they do look very similar.
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Please don't tell me it's to prevent another pogrom.
They should simply be censured for being stupid, malicious and ignoring or twisting empirical evidence to advance their own agenda. There's far too much of that in the world as it is, and it's precisely this kind of ignorance that leads to things like pogroms, lynchings, extremist terrorism (etc) in the first place.
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  #208  
Old 08-12-2017, 07:08 AM
David Orsam David Orsam is offline
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Most Holocaust deniers don't deny the persecution of Jews (and other "untermensch") under the Third Reich. They dispute the alleged mass exterminations via the gas chambers. It doesn't really help that such debate is criminalized in some European countries. That only fuels theories about Jewish conspiracies and whatnot.
"Alleged" mass exterminations???? Crikey! Well there's always one I suppose.

I wouldn't even mind so much (you can live in ignorance if you wish) but your post, Harry, does not respond in any way to mine, yet you quoted me as if you were responding to me. I didn't say that Holocaust deniers "deny the persecution of the Jews" so how is your post a response to mine?

This is what I said:

"Holocaust denial continues more than 70 years after the end of the Second World War, we just can't shake it, but just because there are some people who refuse to face facts, it doesn't mean that the Holocaust didn't happen."

You will note that I did not say alleged facts, incidentally, but facts.

However, my post was not about the Holocaust, it was about how the longstanding existence of an argument, regardless of the number of people who believe in it, does not validate that argument in any way.
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  #209  
Old 08-12-2017, 10:22 AM
Henry Flower Henry Flower is offline
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Originally Posted by David Orsam View Post
"Alleged" mass exterminations???? Crikey! Well there's always one I suppose.

I wouldn't even mind so much (you can live in ignorance if you wish) but your post, Harry, does not respond in any way to mine, yet you quoted me as if you were responding to me. I didn't say that Holocaust deniers "deny the persecution of the Jews" so how is your post a response to mine?

This is what I said:

"Holocaust denial continues more than 70 years after the end of the Second World War, we just can't shake it, but just because there are some people who refuse to face facts, it doesn't mean that the Holocaust didn't happen."

You will note that I did not say alleged facts, incidentally, but facts.

However, my post was not about the Holocaust, it was about how the longstanding existence of an argument, regardless of the number of people who believe in it, does not validate that argument in any way.
I used to believe that the Holocaust had been exagerrated and distorted for political ends. I enjoyed having this minority opinion and what I thought was a kind of hidden knowledge. I read a lot about it. It all made sense. Then I got a bit older and read the other side of the argument. And I read, and read, and read. And I realised I'd been seduced by distortions, omissions, and plenty - plenty - of outright lies. And so though I don't agree with banning any opinion or speech, I do understand why denial is banned in certain places. The evidence for the deliberate mass extermination is so plentiful, so indisputable, and so freely available, that to publish Holocaust denial can only be seen as a wilful and malevolent declaration of racial animus.

But I don't approve of banning ideas, I agree that this gives them a countercultural appeal to those of a certain bent. Better to do what David and others do, and what was done to Irving in the courtroom: destroy bad arguments - and their authors - with the facts. However long it takes.
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  #210  
Old 08-12-2017, 10:32 AM
Henry Flower Henry Flower is offline
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Originally Posted by Henry Flower View Post
I used to believe that the Holocaust had been exagerrated and distorted for political ends. I enjoyed having this minority opinion and what I thought was a kind of hidden knowledge. I read a lot about it. It all made sense. Then I got a bit older and read the other side of the argument. And I read, and read, and read. And I realised I'd been seduced by distortions, omissions, and plenty - plenty - of outright lies. And so though I don't agree with banning any opinion or speech, I do understand why denial is banned in certain places. The evidence for the deliberate mass extermination is so plentiful, so indisputable, and so freely available, that to publish Holocaust denial can only be seen as a wilful and malevolent declaration of racial animus.

But I don't approve of banning ideas, I agree that this gives them a countercultural appeal to those of a certain bent. Better to do what David and others do, and what was done to Irving in the courtroom: destroy bad arguments - and their authors - with the facts. However long it takes.
"Alleged mass exterminations" is of course unavoidably an insinuation that not one, not ten, not hundreds, but hundreds and hundreds of thousands of Jews, systematically and conspiratorially lied about the war years, "Alleged mass exterminations" = "The Jews are conspiratorial liars". It's an unavoidable corollary.
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Last edited by Henry Flower : 08-12-2017 at 10:34 AM.
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