"I think I know him"

[DJA]

I agree with Steve too Jerry, there's no need for Kate to have taken a direct route to the square; even dawdling it's only a 10 minute walk, and we know she didn't arrive until almost half an hour after leaving the station at the earliest.

We don't really know of her movements or the timing.

We know when she left the lockup and when she was found dead.

[Joshua Rogan]

Devonshire might have worked from the police station but New Street was a dead end. So are you saying she may have traveled down Devonshire to Gravel Lane and then to Houndsditch? Then where when reaching Houndsditch? Right to Duke Street or left to Aldgate and then around to get to Mitre Square?

I'm just saying we don't know where she went after going left down Bishopsgate St. She might initially have headed toward the Shoe Lane casual ward for all we know, although there's probably not enough time to get there and back. Whether she met her killer heading there, wandering the streets aimlessly, or in a coffee shop we'll probably never know. But my guess would be she probably did head down Houndsditch and met him whilst walking around St Botolph's church, before heading via Duke St and Church Passage to the darkest corner of a secluded square. But that of course doesn't get us any further.

[Joshua Rogan]

We don't really know of her movements or the timing.

We know when she left the lockup and when she was found dead.

We also know she wasn't in the square when PC Watkins did his round previously, which apparently took 10-15 mins.

[DJA]

Agreed.

Reckon she was inside 6 Mitre Street or unconscious on the other side of the fence.

[Joshua Rogan]

Various problems with that map.

Lot of places in the wrong spot.

What's wrong with it? Looks pretty good to me. Although for some reason (probably to fit it on page) it isn't orientated to North. Things did change though, by the mid 1890's most of the open yard had been built on.

[DJA]

St.Botolph's Church and Houndsditch for starters

[Joshua Rogan]

St.Botolph's Church and Houndsditch for starters

Well the roads have been remodelled recently but I'm pretty sure the church is still in the same spot.

[jerryd]

Dave,

Here is a modern map. Houndsditch extended to Algate High Street back then.

Orange= Church
Green= approximate location of the Bull Inn
Blue= Mitre Square
Black= extended Hounsditch to Aldgate High

[DJA]

Thanks guys.

Sure had my bearings wrong.

[Observer]

Hi Observer,

I've drawn three possible routes from the police station heading down Houndsditch. All three take her by the Rose Coffee Shop at 38 Houndsditch which is off the map slightly to the left from where I started all three routes. As you can see the last (corner) building at the corner of Houndsditch and Duke Street is #27.

The red and black routes seem the two most likely to get to the square in the quickest amount of time in my opinion. As far as the police checking out the Rose coffee house, the point is that it may have been used by the police at the time for housing witnesses or possibly other surveillance type activity. Of course that is pure speculation, but it was known the following year (1889) to be used for just that purpose by Inspector Abberline to sequester Algernon Allies in the Cleveland Street Scandal case.

Hi Jerry

I'd favour the green route as far as Aldgate, then heading east along Aldgate. As I said Kate Eddowes was skint when she left the police station and I believe she headed back to the area where she was picked up drunk earlier in the night. That area was noted for attracting prostitutes, and it's hardly surprising considering the proximity of Aldgate Station and the pubs in that area. I believe she took her "customers" to the dark confines of Mitre Square, a practise which eventually cost her her life.

I don't know why coffee hoses came to be included in this discussion, I don't believe they hold any merit as to determining her movements that night.

[Observer]

Quite possibly asphyxiated nearby.

There were no signs of asphyxiation displayed on the body of Kate Eddowes.

[DJA]

I'm just saying we don't know where she went after going left down Bishopsgate St. She might initially have headed toward the Shoe Lane casual ward for all we know, although there's probably not enough time to get there and back. Whether she met her killer heading there, wandering the streets aimlessly, or in a coffee shop we'll probably never know. But my guess would be she probably did head down Houndsditch and met him whilst walking around St Botolph's church, before heading via Duke St and Church Passage to the darkest corner of a secluded square. But that of course doesn't get us any further.

Where was this Shoe Lane casual ward?

Surmised it was near Fleet Street

[Observer]

Neither were in Mitre Street.

Other side of Mitre Street to the station.

The Bull Inn was once the City Terminus of coaches travelling north east.

https://pubshistory.com/LondonPubs/A.../BullInn.shtml

There is no reference to the City Terminus in the link you provided. Also could you explain " Other side of Mitre Street to the station."? As I said, Mitre street is nowhere near the station.

[Observer]

I'm just saying we don't know where she went after going left down Bishopsgate St. She might initially have headed toward the Shoe Lane casual ward for all we know, although there's probably not enough time to get there and back. Whether she met her killer heading there, wandering the streets aimlessly, or in a coffee shop we'll probably never know. But my guess would be she probably did head down Houndsditch and met him whilst walking around St Botolph's church, before heading via Duke St and Church Passage to the darkest corner of a secluded square. But that of course doesn't get us any further.

I'd agree Joshua. Duke Street was off the beaten track a bit. I'd say she headed back to the area around St Botolphs.

[DJA]

There were no signs of asphyxiation displayed on the body of Kate Eddowes.

Says who?