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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Maybrick, James

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  #1471  
Old 09-21-2017, 07:08 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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As is the idea that even a moderately educated man would say that he "frequented" a pub on a given day, when what he did was "popped into" the pub. To frequent something refers to a pattern of behaviour over time (the clue is in the word), not to a single visit. Nobody ever said, "I think I'll frequent the pub this evening" ; this is yet another example of someone of limited education trying to use a grandiose word in order to give the impression of "oldspeak" and failing miserably.
Actually, in the interest of accuracy, he says "frequented my club" (not pub), but the same argument applies.
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  #1472  
Old 09-21-2017, 07:15 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Yes Abby, it comes from Collard's list of Eddowes' possessions. I believe the diarist also alludes to the other tin boxes on the list containing sugar and tea. But it seems somewhat unlikely that a killer pressed for time would have emptied Kate's pockets, identified the contents, then put them back again.
Thanks JR
that alone should effectively kill it. theres absolutely zero chance of that "coincidence" happening.
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  #1473  
Old 09-21-2017, 07:31 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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tin matchbox empty

three unique words make up that phrase. two adjectives and a noun. with one of the adjectives placed at the end, which itself is rare. the coincidence that those exact words in that order was used independently twice has about as much chance as happening as the sun rising in the west.
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"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
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  #1474  
Old 09-21-2017, 07:33 AM
Mike J. G. Mike J. G. is offline
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Originally Posted by John G View Post
I think some people are having a real problem with basic statistics. The presence of the phrase "one off" has effectively killed the diary, it's as dead as the dodo, and for anyone still struggling with basic mathematical concepts here's why.

The first recorded instance of the phrase being used in the English language, and then only in an engineering context-an industry, incidentally, that Maybrick had no connection to-, was in 1934, almost half a century after the diary was purportedly written: see OED. It would be decades later before the phrase entered everyday usage.

Now, of it's to be argued that the phrase could have originated earlier then we have to consider the statistical chances of the person being Maybrick. Thus, between 1888 and 1934 there must have been over a hundred million people who were alive in capable of writing in English, anyone of whom could have originated the phrase. But against odds of several million to one against that person happens to Maybrick, in a diary of disputed provenance!

In fact, the odds are even greater, because you then have to explain why there are no other recorded examples between, say, 1888 and 1934.

Come on people, it's not rocket science. It really isn't.
Now now, John, it's not impossible that Maybrick was a maverick linguist!
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  #1475  
Old 09-21-2017, 07:38 AM
Mike J. G. Mike J. G. is offline
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Many a Public House in the late 1800's was referred to by locals as the 'Post House', as prior to the setting up of the Royal mail many of them acted as collection and drop off points for a basic postal system.
I believe the author of the 'diary' also errs on four occasions in his use of unnecessary letters 'e'. Quite simply a writers error. I can never see the big deal over this Post/e House malarkey.
No, they generally weren't, unless they actually had ties to a post office. If it were true that many were known by that nickname, we'd see evidence of those names appearing in print, which we do not.

That's also ignoring the fact that the "Poste House" in the diary is spelled in the exact same distinctive manner as the one which coincidentally resides in town, not far from where Maybrick had offices, IIRC, which at that time, didn't bear that name.

Bearing in mind that the good people at the central library aided me in searching for any pub by that name in that year, and nothing was found whatsoever. This is something even Shirley Harrison had to contend was an issue.

If you can't see the big deal about a pub being mentioned that did not exist, then you're frankly gullible, mate.
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  #1476  
Old 09-21-2017, 07:44 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Thanks JR
that alone should effectively kill it. theres absolutely zero chance of that "coincidence" happening.
Especially when one considers that Collard's list was not accessible to the public until the mid 1980s. Helpfully, it was reproduced in Martin Fido's popular book, The Crimes, Detection and Death of Jack the Ripper, published in 1987.
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Last edited by Sam Flynn : 09-21-2017 at 07:46 AM.
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  #1477  
Old 09-21-2017, 07:46 AM
Mike J. G. Mike J. G. is offline
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What evidence have you got that any pub Maybrick was likely to have frequented was ever referred to ad the Poste House? By the way, "loads of pubs were known as the Poste House back then" isn't evidence.

Coaching inns of the period may have been colloquially referred to as a Post House, however, the pub in Cumberland Street was not a coaching inn and was known locally as "The Smallest Pub in Liverpool."

Maybrick was an educated man, not some illiterate moron. He wouldn't have spelt a simple word like "post", wrongly. That's completely ridiculous.
It gets tiring when so many people keep making up details to explain away issues with the diary.

Oh, there were lots of Poste Houses back then. Were there? Then show me where they were...

From Gore's directories, to the Liverpool Echo, to detailed pub guides, to local history books, and everything in between, and the only Poste House that I've found is the one which still resides today, and didn't bear that name in 1888.

Even when reading the amazingly detailed book, Liverpool Ways and Byeways by Michael O'Mahoney, published in 1931, we have many many obscure details about old taverns and eateries, including old pub names from as far back as the late 1700's, and yet not one single mention of a Poste House.

It beggars belief.
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  #1478  
Old 09-21-2017, 07:48 AM
Mike J. G. Mike J. G. is offline
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Originally Posted by Spider View Post
No it's not 'evidence' in so far as it's particular to Maybrick as I've no idea which PH's he frequented but it's an historical fact and of course he could have spelled 'post' incorrectly, he did.
It is historical fact that the Poste House was actually known as the Muck Midden, Spider.

When browsing the history of my city, I've yet to see one mention of another pub by that name.

What you're doing is making things up to benefit this error, and that's quite literally the opposite of what you're supposed to be doing as a person exercising logic and common sense.
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  #1479  
Old 09-21-2017, 07:53 AM
Mike J. G. Mike J. G. is offline
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Originally Posted by Graham View Post
While I'm here the phrase that always gave me pause for thought is "Tin Matchbox Empty". Any ideas, anyone?
That's an easy one, Graham. Maybrick was, of course, a psychic! Why not? He drank in futuristic pubs, invented phrases, evaded the police as the world's most infamous killer, could mask his handwriting whenever he wanted... Did I miss anything?
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  #1480  
Old 09-21-2017, 07:55 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Originally Posted by Mike J. G. View Post
That's an easy one, Graham. Maybrick was, of course, a psychic! Why not? He drank in futuristic pubs, invented phrases, evaded the police as the world's most infamous killer, could mask his handwriting whenever he wanted... Did I miss anything?
he could ride a parrot
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"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
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