Meredith Kercher case

[RivkahChaya]

I personally don't believe anything the Italian courts or police say that she said or did, which she has denied, and I am never going to Italy.

It it possible there was a lot of pressure to resolve the case, and an American who possibly didn't speak Italian well was an easy target for a quick resolution?

[jason_c]

I personally don't believe anything the Italian courts or police say that she said or did, which she has denied, and I am never going to Italy.

It it possible there was a lot of pressure to resolve the case, and an American who possibly didn't speak Italian well was an easy target for a quick resolution?

This doesn't take into account Solecitto's conviction. Why pick on an upper middle class Italian if they are looking at an easy target for quick resolution?

If you want a quick resolution you blame the foreign black guy.

[Abby Normal]

I suspect the latest decision has a lot to do with the fact that Amanda Knox originally pointed the finger at Patrick Lumumba and said she had covered her ears while he attacked and killed Meredith. That is a very specific claim to come up with, and must have been very hard for those concerned to reconcile with her not even being in the house that night, and therefore not having the foggiest idea what sort of person may have committed the crime, what they actually did to the victim, or if only one person was involved.

Telling an extraordinary lie like that, and causing Lumumba's life to go down the toilet, when she had no reason to think he was involved and he could have been convicted instead of the real killer - Guede - because of her, isn't evidence that she was involved. But it was just about the worst possible lie she could have told in the circumstances, effectively putting herself right there in the house, within earshot of the crime, and later having to rely on people believing her when she said she wasn't there at all. And she has already paid a huge price for that. It was always a big ask, human nature being what it is, and something no justice system in the world can get around.

Love,

Caz
X

Hi caz
if it weren't for that I would be 99.999% sure she had nothing to do with it. As it is I still don't but for the life of me I cant figure out why she would lie like that.
What was her excuse for this lie?

But that being said, the Italians have a kangaroo court system. Monster of Florence case anyone? YEEEESH.

[Ally]

We have no proof she said anything of the sort. We have only the cops testimony that she said it. Cops who for some inexplicable reason failed to record her "confession". I am somehow not convinced in the accuracy of what they claim she said.

But let's presume that she did actually say it. I have already pointed out on this thread the case of 4 men who all confessed to the brutal rape and murder of a woman -- all of them providing far more graphic details of their alleged crime than "covering up their ears" while someone else did it, details that included how they beat her and raped her and all the while, none of them did it.

Whether someone would break under hours of interrogation is not the question. It happens. Whether people are capable of inventing bizarre details to support their claims is not in question. It happens. What is important is whether those claims match reality.

The police, not Amanda brought up Lumumba. This is important. She didn't just randomly interject him into the crime. The police put him in the scenario, and just like dozens have done before her, she fabricated a scenario that has absolutely no relation to the actual case at all.

That is of course, IF she actually said all that about him.

[Abby Normal]

We have no proof she said anything of the sort. We have only the cops testimony that she said it. Cops who for some inexplicable reason failed to record her "confession". I am somehow not convinced in the accuracy of what they claim she said.

But let's presume that she did actually say it. I have already pointed out on this thread the case of 4 men who all confessed to the brutal rape and murder of a woman -- all of them providing far more graphic details of their alleged crime than "covering up their ears" while someone else did it, details that included how they beat her and raped her and all the while, none of them did it.

Whether someone would break under hours of interrogation is not the question. It happens. Whether people are capable of inventing bizarre details to support their claims is not in question. It happens. What is important is whether those claims match reality.

The police, not Amanda brought up Lumumba. This is important. She didn't just randomly interject him into the crime. The police put him in the scenario, and just like dozens have done before her, she fabricated a scenario that has absolutely no relation to the actual case at all.

That is of course, IF she actually said all that about him.

Hi ally
Thanks. I agree. False confessions happen all the time, especially under intense police pressure.

But do you know what her (or her lawyers)explanation was for saying that? Did she deny she said it? Did she say she was tricked by the police into saying it. Did she say she said it under extreme duress?

It would be interesting to know what her reason was.

[Abby Normal]

The whole falsely accusing her black boss has made me wonder if they may have all been wasted perhaps partying at the house together and she confused her boss with Guede. Maybe she and her boyfriend left right as Guede showed up. Or her and her boyfriend showed up during the attack and maybe heard or briefly saw him but quickly left. Something along those lines.

[Ally]

The whole falsely accusing her "black boss" (as opposed to just her boss, regardless of what color he was??) was because she had texted him "See you later" on the night of the murder. The police took that as plans to meet up with him and commit the murder and therefore, they brought his name and the text into the interrogation as proof of the "conspiracy".

She did not just randomly point to her "black boss" and say, the black guy did it.

The police thought the text "see you later" was indicative of him being in on it and they continued to question her about what they had done that evening. Eventually, at the police leading, her confession included him as the killer. According to the police, although, again, we have absolutely zero evidence as to what, if anything, she actually said in her "confession".

[John Hacker]

So this case is finally finished.

(BTW, to anyone who remembers me I'm not dead. I've just been on leave. )

This case really struck a chord with me in terms of how I saw the Ripper case and it's got nothing to do with the facts, circumstances, victim, etc... It's about the need we as humans have for narrative. We're far more prone to believe a story that SOUNDS good to us.

Every JtR suspect from the big to the small has it's adherents.. Every single one of them is faced with the same set of facts and yet people I respect and admire come down on all sides of the same question. With a lack of a definitive answer or method of testing, it would be a funny world if we didn't disagree.

Me... I'm a cynic and I don't believe in much. But I've always been fascinated with how people can emotionally invest themselves in a suspect or a position. And particularly in how the media plays a role in furthering these stories.

I've been following the Kercher case since day one... and I've never seen anything quite like it. You got a femme fatale, drug fueled sex orgy and satanic manga comics. It was more tawdry and ridiculous than the tabloid coverage of the Ripper killings... But the story was being driven by the police.

It was sensational and would have been an amazing story if true.

(It's not IMO.)

Everything I learned on the case outside of the straight press was from one of the anti-Knox sites (TJMJ or PMF) They did the same sort of reconstructions of events that most of us have done at one point or another. However it was all in lockstep and presented a united voice telling the same story.

The thing that really struck me is the mythology that's grown up around the victim. There are dozens of articles, pictures, memorials etc... about what Meredith Kercher would have "wanted". They've made her just as much as story as they've done to Knox and Sollecito. They're feeling real pain now, clearly. But it's a scary sort of pain where they've coopted the very real pain of the family and tried to make it their own.

Knox supporters are guilty of this as well, fighting to defend the narrative that she was a complete innocent and disregarding how she contributed to the guilty narrative through her initial missteps. Under the circumstances they were understandable. But she DID have a hand in creating the story.

Both camps were active in attempting to bring the "true story" to the media and I have to say, I've never seen anything like it before. I've followed crime for over 30 years now and while I've had many a spirited discussion over bits of evidence from various cases I have never seen such organized camps where people are not simply examining the evidence and debating it, but actively trying to influence an ongoing criminal case through the manipulation of the media that helped create the story in the first place.

Long ago I wrote about the explosion of the information era and how it might impact Ripperology and how it could affect our understanding and perceptions of historical crimes. I had envisioned a collaborative database where facts could be collected and centralized to further the studies of serious scholars of cases long done, hopefully dispelling the myths and finding the truth.

I guess I was wrong. People pick sides and read only what they want to read. Especially if it's a juicy story. Facts are secondary.

We will never know with certainty what happened the night Meredith Kercher was killed. Once the stories took over people stopped looking at evidence and went for the throats of those who picked the "wrong" side.

I find the whole thing incredibly depressing honestly. It's one thing to argue a point based on the evidence or belief, but when the story becomes more important than the facts you're cheating yourself of an opportunity to learn.

I apologize for the long and rambling post, but after seeing this message from the PMF admins this morning it got me thinking.

This is a formal announcement that from this point forward, the experiment that was FOAKer Tuesday is now canceled. In light of the recent judgment, I no longer see any value in it. We are not interested in what FOAKers have to say at this point and they are no longer welcome here, our two camps will never be reconciled and this board should be a haven for those with an honest interest in justice, truth and the well being of the Kerchers only. It is hardly a deprivation, as there is no shortage of online venues where the FOAKers are able to post and supporters of Meredith can engage with them if they wish. There is, in my view, no longer anything to debate with those concerned only with agenda. This site's purpose is to embody the spirit of Meredith and it will no longer be stained by those that have sought to undermine her from the very beginning.

Thank You

I don't think they even recognized the irony inherent in that post which is sad.


When we cease to be able to discuss our beliefs with those who disagree we all lose. I've seen bits of this attitude in Ripper discussions, but nothing with the virulence I saw in this case.

What happened to Meredith is an absolute tragedy. Her life was cut short and then coopted by people who feel the need to live through her pain. The families of the suspects were put through an ongoing hell that is unlikely to ever end because the stories never will.

Knox will always be a femme fatale, manipulating others into a sex orgy ending in death. Sollecito will always be the weak willed pawn in her twisted game. Meredith's memory will forever be waved as a flag by those who never knew her yet feel confident in speaking for her. And I think that might be the saddest part of all

Ah well. Now I'm thoroughly depressed I think I'm back to JtR at this point instead of modern crime We can argue that until the cows come home without the sort of collateral damage a real time case can cause. And everyone can pick their own camp rather then story A or story B.

So... I guess it's time to start catching up with diary land.

John

[Rosella]

I do think nationalism came into the reporting of this case to a huge degree. The British media were extraordinarily protective of Meredith and her family and their reputations. The U.S. media jumped on Knox's case, concentrating on bagging, sometimes none too subtly, the Italian justice system and the fact that an American citizen was sitting in a foreign jail. The Italian press were defensive about the attacks and felt aggrieved. The way each nation's media moulded this story to the sensitivities of its own citizens made this case is interesting, I think.

[Batman]

Italy has always had satanic panics

Just read the case of The Monster of Florence. The Italian legal system is a mess of superstitious nonsense.

[caz]

The British media were extraordinarily protective of Meredith and her family and their reputations.

Extraordinarily so? Meredith was completely blameless in all this - she was dead - and her family could have done nothing to prevent it. I can't really see how they (or their reputations?) could have suffered anything worse after that. If family members were criticised for the way they handled their personal tragedy, it was most likely by people who had never experienced anything like it themselves. I certainly can't imagine how I'd have reacted, and hope I never find out.

Meredith and her sister were at school with my daughter, and I often used to say hello to their father on my walk to work, as he was going in the opposite direction. I will never forget waking up to hear the news of her murder on the radio and the dreadful sinking feeling in my stomach, knowing it was a million times worse for her family.

I hope Amanda Knox will get some peace now. She and Meredith's family deserve it after going through so much.

Love,

Caz
X

[John Hacker]

I hope everyone finds peace at some point after this debacle, but it's going to be hard for everyone Guilty or innocent Knox and Sollecito will be hounded for the rest of their lives by people believing them to be murderers.

And guilty or innocent the Kerchers got robbed of the closure they deserved. If K&S are innocent, they got sold a bill of goods that denied them closure for seven years while the killer was already in jail. If by some oddity, K&S were guilty then they were denied closure again by the most incompetent forensic investigation and ludicrous prosecution imaginable.

John