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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Motive, Method and Madness

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  #21  
Old 07-12-2013, 06:39 PM
lynn cates lynn cates is offline
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Hello Ben.

"There is no evidence that he "deliberately" removed a section of Eddowes descending colon. This is far more commonly attributed to clumsiness on the part of the killer."

Spot on.

Cheers.
LC
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  #22  
Old 07-12-2013, 06:47 PM
lynn cates lynn cates is offline
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Hello David.

"(Roughly the same method in the Chapman and Kelly cases, a completely different one with Eddowes)."

Yes. Many surgeons have a set procedure for entering the body cavity.

Cheers.
LC
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  #23  
Old 07-12-2013, 06:47 PM
DVV DVV is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lynn cates View Post
Hello (again) Prosector. But he did cut away a piece of large intestine and release "feculent material."
Not what one normally thinks of when the adjective "skill" is used.
Cheers.
LC
Brilliant surgeons have the right to drink gin, Lynn.

Cheers
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  #24  
Old 07-12-2013, 06:50 PM
Digalittledeeperwatson Digalittledeeperwatson is offline
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Wasn't Eddowes ripped through her many layers of clothing?
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  #25  
Old 07-12-2013, 06:53 PM
lynn cates lynn cates is offline
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Hello David. Thanks.

Reminds me of the following story.

"A gentleman sits at breakfast table with his wife.

'My dear, I really dread work today. I'm dizzy and trembling. My hand is shaking so badly that I cut myself shaving.'

'Well, if you feel THAT bad, why go in? Just stay home today.'

'Can't, luv, I've two appendectomies and a heart transplant before noon.'"

Cheers.
LC
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  #26  
Old 07-12-2013, 06:55 PM
lynn cates lynn cates is offline
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Hello DLDW.

"Wasn't Eddowes ripped through her many layers of clothing?"

Well, yes. But she also had her clothes pulled up--at some point.

Cheers.
LC
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  #27  
Old 07-12-2013, 07:02 PM
Digalittledeeperwatson Digalittledeeperwatson is offline
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We have a decent idea of the timeframe in which it was done in. Probably anyways. So I might suggest brevity. As far as a surgeon executing it differently being a negative, I might also bring up the point that this was not business. It was recreation. So why should it look the same? Nevermind that if it was a doctor a little disguising of your skill wouldn't be bad policy.
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  #28  
Old 07-12-2013, 07:35 PM
Errata Errata is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digalittledeeperwatson View Post
We have a decent idea of the timeframe in which it was done in. Probably anyways. So I might suggest brevity. As far as a surgeon executing it differently being a negative, I might also bring up the point that this was not business. It was recreation. So why should it look the same? Nevermind that if it was a doctor a little disguising of your skill wouldn't be bad policy.
Disguising your style isn't a bad idea, it just doesn't usually work that way.

For example, most people have a recognizable signature. So if someone hands you a huge stack of papers to sign, your 174th signature will look like your first. Not exactly like, but mostly like. Now lets say you are forging your boss's signature on those same 174 documents. You first signature will look like your boss's, your last signature will look considerably less like your boss's. Because you are doing something unfamiliar, you are going to have some varying quality of forgery. Now let's say you are forging the signature on 174 pages, but you have to do it in ten minutes. Your first signature will be a passable forgery, but most of the others are going to be your boss's name in your own handwriting.

The way a surgeon or a butcher cuts is a lot more than the choice between horizontal and vertical. Surgeon cuts are beveled. They have absolutely no skill at sawing, which is why surgeons should never carve turkeys. Surgeons are tip oriented. They don't use the full length of the knife. They use the first quarter of an inch. They work shallow. They don't hesitate, and they don't over cut. They don't use the weight of the blade.

Butchers cuts are not beveled. Their cuts are strong and sure. They almost never use the point of the knife, it's all the middle of the blade. Every cut uses the weight of the knife, not the strength of the arm. Unlike surgeons, butchers will move a body in order to get a better angle. Butchers do not hesitate, and they also do not over cut. A butcher would not need three cuts to open a human abdomen. They could do it in one smooth stroke.

"Jack" is tip oriented. His cuts are not beveled. He is perfectly comfortable with sawing, but he doesn't use the weight of the blade. He hesitates. He over cuts. He does not have good control over the knife. What this probably means is that he had to resort to using two hands to open the abdomen. Which is not something anybody used to any amount of knife work would have to do. My mother would have to do that. I would not. If I were a betting gal, I would say that the sight of the exposed organs calmed him in some way. His external cuts are savage, out of control, and relatively unskilled. The same cannot be said for the interior cuts. They are not conventionally skilled, but they are controlled. His only loss of control might be over cutting when separating the uterus from the pelvic floor, and hashing up the liver when he took the kidney. And I think both of those problems have to do with working with a longer knife than he was used to.

Maybe he gutted fish for a living.
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  #29  
Old 07-12-2013, 07:40 PM
lynn cates lynn cates is offline
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Hello DLDW. Thanks.

"I might also bring up the point that this was not business. It was recreation."

OK. And your reason for believing this?

Also, skill is hard to disguise.

Cheers.
LC
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  #30  
Old 07-12-2013, 07:44 PM
lynn cates lynn cates is offline
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Hello Errata.

Your first long paragraph makes a point that I have been trying to make for several months. Thanks.

In your last paragraph, I'd think Kate's interior cuts were NOT controlled. There was a good bit of collateral damage.

Cheers.
LC
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