More Info on Thomas Allman

[Paddy]

And this is the only one that could be John

BARNET, JOHN Mothers maiden name: SHANAHAN
GRO Reference: 1860 S Quarter in WHITECHAPEL Volume 01C Page 382

Pat......

[Paddy]

Catherine Barnett Birth

Catherines Birth different again.

BARNETT, CATHARINE Mothers maiden name: O'BRIEN
GRO Reference: 1853 D Quarter in WHITECHAPEL Volume 01C Page 377

Pat.......

[Paddy]

And JUst to confuse things a Patrick was born in 1859 also to a Hayes like Joseph Barnett.

BARNETT, PATRICK Mothers maiden name: HAYES
GRO Reference: 1859 J Quarter in WHITECHAPEL Volume 01C Page 368

Pat.....

[Paddy]

Patricks death

At the age of 3.........Death record

BARNETT, PATRICK 3
GRO Reference: 1863 M Quarter in WHITECHAPEL Volume 01C Page 295

Pat...

[Debra A]

The trouble is, Debs, we still have the Hayes/Bryan birth cert/baptism cert contradiction to explain for Joseph, unless it was simply a mix-up over the godmother.

That's right, Robert. I was just putting all the various info from the Catholic baptisms over here for those who are interested in researching this themselves.

[Debra A]

Catherines Birth different again.

BARNETT, CATHARINE Mothers maiden name: O'BRIEN
GRO Reference: 1853 D Quarter in WHITECHAPEL Volume 01C Page 377

Pat.......

Thanks Pat. As you see, the baptism records I posted that also correspond to the Barnett children show the surnames Brien/Bryan and Shanehan for their mother's maiden name. The Allman marriage shows Catherine Barnett's maiden
name as Shannon, which is the same as Shanehan more or less. Joseph's civil birth certificate shows his mum as Hayes, the same name as you have for Catherine there.

There were two John Barnetts of the exact same age in the area and both of them had lived at Hairbrain Court at some point and I think both had a mother named Catherine. I've come across both of them in the workhouse records.

[Robert]

Debs there was a John Barnett born within days of the other one. Mother's forename Bridget.......and maiden name Hayes.

[Paddy]

Can only find 3 Johns births in Whitechapel area...

BARNETT, JOHN / Mum JONES
GRO Reference: 1859 M Quarter in WHITECHAPEL Volume 01C Page 391

BARNET, JOHN / Mum SHANAHAN
GRO Reference: 1860 S Quarter in WHITECHAPEL Volume 01C Page 382

BRIEN, JOHN / Mum HAYES
GRO Reference: 1859 M Quarter in POPLAR UNION Volume 01C Page 671

Pat..................

[Paddy]

A Catherine Barnett death in Stepney

Death the only one around the right age.

BARNETT, CATHERINE ANN age 33
GRO Reference: 1857 M Quarter in STEPNEY Volume 01C Page 371

[miss marple]

Oh DEAR ! Nothing is ever simple with genealogy. Irish names are a nightmare, constant repetitions. I thought Bruce Paley had nailed this years age,Censuses and the fish porters licenses, except he could not get all the childrens births dated.And Chris Scott found the Allman Barnetto marriage
The Shannon name on the Allman/Barnetto cert certainly mixes things. Katherine Beer being a witness certainly means its Mum but there is evidence for Hayes. I looked for a Brien marriage to a Barnett and could not find one or Shannon.
We have a complete list of addresses for Joe now including Sally's finds.
Paley has Joe's birth cert in his book;
25th May 1858 Whitechapel ALDGATE Father John Barnett, Dock labourer, Mother Catherine Hayes. All the children apart from Denis were supposed to have been born in East End
Order of births, actually certificates needed, its still problematic. Paley was working before the internet
Denis born Chalk KENT 1849? [ east london in census records]
Daniel born Stepney 1852?
Catherine born either 1855, 1856 there are two for Shoreditch, one for East London/
Joseph 1858
John 1859 Whitechapel ?
John Barnett father died in 1864. There are two likely entries June Southwark Sep Whitechapel.
Denis in 1881 census 5 Goulston Buildings age 33 Fish porter born Bethnal Green wife Mary A Barnett 32
Children Denis age 9 John age 6 and their Aunt Mrs Hayes.
Short of getting the original certificates, we won't know. Perhaps Paley was wrong.

Miss Marple

[Paddy]

Oh Dear....

From Free BMD

Marriages Jun 1856
BARNETT John St Giles 1b 518
FLAHERTY Bridget St Giles 1b 518
HAYES Ellen St Giles 1b 518
JONES James St Giles 1b 518

[miss marple]

Its Ellen not Catherine and John Barnett may have married Bridget. Anyway ST Giles is in Holborn.

Miss Marple

[miss marple]

There is a possibility that Joseph Shannon was Catherine Hayes stepfather.

Miss Marple

[MrBarnett]

Oh DEAR ! Nothing is ever simple with genealogy. Irish names are a nightmare, constant repetitions. I thought Bruce Paley had nailed this years age,Censuses and the fish porters licenses, except he could not get all the childrens births dated.And Chris Scott found the Allman Barnetto marriage
The Shannon name on the Allman/Barnetto cert certainly mixes things. Katherine Beer being a witness certainly means its Mum but there is evidence for Hayes. I looked for a Brien marriage to a Barnett and could not find one or Shannon.
We have a complete list of addresses for Joe now including Sally's finds.
Paley has Joe's birth cert in his book;
25th May 1858 Whitechapel ALDGATE Father John Barnett, Dock labourer, Mother Catherine Hayes. All the children apart from Denis were supposed to have been born in East End
Order of births, actually certificates needed, its still problematic. Paley was working before the internet
Denis born Chalk KENT 1849? [ east london in census records]
Daniel born Stepney 1852?
Catherine born either 1855, 1856 there are two for Shoreditch, one for East London/
Joseph 1858
John 1859 Whitechapel ?
John Barnett father died in 1864. There are two likely entries June Southwark Sep Whitechapel.
Denis in 1881 census 5 Goulston Buildings age 33 Fish porter born Bethnal Green wife Mary A Barnett 32
Children Denis age 9 John age 6 and their Aunt Mrs Hayes.
Short of getting the original certificates, we won't know. Perhaps Paley was wrong.

Miss Marple

So, Miss M., perhaps there is still some value in reassessing the case?

You might want to trawl through all the posts where you have suggested otherwise and issue a retraction? You'll probably achieve more that way than continuing with your 'research'.

MrB

[Robert]

There was a marriage in Cork Aug 15th 1842 between John Barnane and Cate Shanahane. I gather that 'Barnane' could metamorphose into 'Barnett.'