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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Kosminski, Aaron

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  #91  
Old 12-02-2017, 02:07 PM
Paddy Paddy is offline
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It seems to me that when Jacob Cohen took Aaron Kozminski to the Infirmary and declared he thought him to be insane because he attacked his sister, he was talking about his own sister Betsy who was married to Aarons brother Woolf.
Had it been the sister Matilda who was attacked surely Morris would have been involved, in case information was needed.

I think its possible that as Aaron started to get ill he was evicted from living with Woolf and Betsy. Betsy seems to have just got pregnant for the child that she lost in February 1889. I am not sure how many months pregnant she was though, if anybody can help?

Is it possible there is a connection with his mutilations and Betsys prgnancy.
If he blamed her for being thrown out? Oh and also that he was not well mentally?

Pat.....
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  #92  
Old 12-03-2017, 04:08 AM
S.Brett S.Brett is offline
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Hi Pat!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddy View Post
It seems to me that when Jacob Cohen took Aaron Kozminski to the Infirmary and declared he thought him to be insane because he attacked his sister, he was talking about his own sister Betsy who was married to Aarons brother Woolf.
Had it been the sister Matilda who was attacked surely Morris would have been involved, in case information was needed.

I think its possible that as Aaron started to get ill he was evicted from living with Woolf and Betsy. Betsy seems to have just got pregnant for the child that she lost in February 1889. I am not sure how many months pregnant she was though, if anybody can help?

Is it possible there is a connection with his mutilations and Betsys prgnancy.
If he blamed her for being thrown out? Oh and also that he was not well mentally?

Pat.....
Interesting considerations.

Greetings, Karsten.
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  #93  
Old 12-03-2017, 10:52 AM
Scott Nelson Scott Nelson is offline
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Yes, it was the brother's brother-in-law that got him first thrown out of the house and then confined in the asylum.
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  #94  
Old 12-04-2017, 07:32 AM
John Malcolm John Malcolm is offline
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Jacob Cohen was Betsy's brother? And he had Aaron thrown out of the house? I must be really out to lunch, because both of those facts are news to me.
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  #95  
Old 12-04-2017, 07:39 AM
Elamarna Elamarna is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Malcolm View Post
Jacob Cohen was Betsy's brother? And he had Aaron thrown out of the house? I must be really out to lunch, because both of those facts are news to me.
John,
I think you will find the first is a relatively new suggestion, not entirely without support, it depends on ones reading of the account, however it is not established as far as i am aware, that she was the woman married to wolf or that cohen was his brother in law. it does however offer interesting options.

The second i fear is an unsupported extension of the first idea.
if Scott has actual evidence to support it, then i of course appologise, i just have not seen any myself.

steve
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  #96  
Old 12-04-2017, 09:17 AM
S.Brett S.Brett is offline
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A few years ago there was an article by Patricia Marshall and Chris Phillips in Ripperologist: "Who was Jacob Cohen?". If I remember correctly, the parents of Woolf Abraham´s wife Betsy Abrahams were Kasriel Szlama Kozminski and Ryfka, nee Lachman. They had a son, Jacob Kozminski, later Jacob Cohen, butcher in Manchester. Probably the same Jacob Cohen of the company (Jacob) Cohen/(Thomas Coughtrey) Davies/ (Woolf) Abrahams (Aaron Kozminski´s brother). The dog incident/ Aaron Kozminski in December 1889 in Cheapside (not far from the address of this London-company in 51 Carter Lane): Aaron Kozminski said that "the dog belongs to Jacobs", maybe he wanted to say the dog belongs to Jacob Cohen. The name of the whole article was "New light on Aaron Kozminski", better I read it again.
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  #97  
Old 12-04-2017, 05:21 PM
Paddy Paddy is offline
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Thanks Karsten

I composed Ripperologist 128 article with Chris Phillips.
Chris had a great deal of knowledge of the Abrahams family and I hope he does not mind my saying that he was pretty sure too when we wrote the paper.

Jacob Cohen (son of Kasriel) was the brother of Brucha/Betsy Kozminski. It is also highly likely he is the Jacob who committed his cousin Aaron.

When he said "Aaron attacked his sister" as it was written third hand it could have meant Aarons sister or Jacobs sister. I do think it is likely that it was Jacobs sister (Woolfs wife) who was attacked, hence her brothers involvement.
As I said, if it was Matilda (Aarons other sister) I would have thought that her husband Morris would have been involved ?

Wolek Lajb Kozminski ( son of Abram Josif and Golda) married Brucha Kozminski in Klodawa in 1881 And Bruchas father was Kasriel Szlama and mother Ryfka. from Poland, Jewish Records Indexing-Poland, Marriages, 1798-1939

Woolf and Betsy and children moved to Bury New Road, Cheetham, Manchester by 1901 census Cheetham was where Jacob had lived for many years before he went to South Africa. .

Pat......
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  #98  
Old 12-04-2017, 06:06 PM
Paddy Paddy is offline
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Woolf took his daughter rebecca out of Berner street school on 11.Oct.1888 address 25 Providence street.

She was out of school for 7 months and then when she went to her next school her address was now 34 Yalford street and her date of birth was altered to allow for these 7 months out of school. It was later changed back and a comment made about 6 months other school ?

Woolf and Betsy were in Yalford street in March 1889 when she lost her baby.

These are the records of Rebecca from Ancestry school admissions attached

Pat.....
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  #99  
Old 12-05-2017, 05:38 AM
Elamarna Elamarna is offline
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Hi Pat,
While the evidence of the connection between Cohen and Kosminski appears strong, I am not 100% convinced, maybe 90%.
it seems something occurred to the family in early October 88, thus the withdrawal from school

Steve
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  #100  
Old 12-05-2017, 07:14 AM
S.Brett S.Brett is offline
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Hi Pat!

I wonder whether Jacob Cohen, a butcher from Manchester, could have had some connections with the Butchers Row, Aldagte High Street/ London.

Inspector Robert Sagar:

"We had good reason to suspect a certain man who worked in 'Butcher's-row,' Aldgate," he said, "and we watched him carefully. There was no doubt that this man was insane, and after a time his friends thought it advisable to have him removed to a private asylum. After he was removed there were no more Ripper atrocities."

It is indeed odd that the butcher Jacob Cohen took Aaron Kozminski to the infirmary and Sagar stated: "after a time his friends thought it advisable to have him removed to a private asylum".

This could mean that Aaron Kozminski was the "Kosminski" of Anderson, Swanson and Macnaghten. And, of course, it might be possible that Sagar watched this "Kosminski"/ Aaron Kozminski in Butchers Row. We do know that the City Police were involved in the "Kosminski- case"- see Swanson. And Sagar was a City Police officer.

One of "his friends" could have been the butcher Jacob Cohen from Manchester, and another "friend", one of the butchers in Butchers Row.

Of course, Jacob Cohen stated that Aaron Kozminski "did not work for years", and Sagar said "removed to a private asylum", not Colney Hatch.

It might be possible that the hairdresser Aaron Kozminski worked in Butchers Row at the time of the murders and that Jacob Cohen was already involved in a previous admission to a private asylum (Macnaghtens "about March 1889"/"Kosminski"?). Two years have passed between March 1889 and February 1891. Enough time for "did not work for years".

Strangely, Woolf took his daughter rebecca out of Berner street school after the Double Event (and after some bloody clothes were found in Batty Street). Woolf´s address Providence Street, just a few steps from the site of the Stride murder. In 1881/82 Woolf lived next to the Dutfields Yard. Is it just a coincidence...?

Karsten.
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