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  #1  
Old 11-26-2017, 01:14 PM
Chava Chava is offline
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Default Mr Blotchy

(Sorry! I put this in the wrong area originally!)

Iím seriously surprised Mr Blotchy is not being looked at as the #1 candidate for the Whitechapel Murderer. Here is Ada Wilsonís description of her attacker:
Height 5í6. Sunburnt face. Fair moustache. Dark coat, wideawake hat.

Here is Lawendeís description of the man seen with Catherine Eddowes before her death:
Height 5í 7-9. Fair complexion. Small fair moustache. Red necktie. Rough/shabby. Wearing a loose pepper and salt jacket and grey cloth cap. Slightly later versions have the moustache as Ďfullí.

Here is Mary Coxís description of the man seen going into her room at Millers Court with her:
Short, stout shabby man with a blotchy face and full carroty moustache. Billycock hat.

These descriptions all sound very similar.

The argument against Mr Blotchy is that Kelly was clearly alive and singing for an hour after she went into her room with him. However we donít know what the killerís MO was. He must have killed Eddowes fairly shortly after meeting her. But we have no idea how long he spent with the others. There are fairly large gaps in Nicholsí timeline and in Chapmanís and a reasonably large gap in Strideís. We canít extrapolate a pattern of behaviour from one murder in the series. I think itís entirely possible that he spent time with them before the killings. And even if his intent was to kill Kelly immediately, he had been seen by a witness entering her room. So itís in his best interest to leave her demonstrably alive for a while. Either that or move in which he likely didnít want to do.

As well, there is the second slash across the throat. Which is apparently known as the Ďinsurance cutí among pathologists. Makes sense. Ada Wilson survived to tell the tale. And may have forced him underground for a few months. He wouldnít want to leave any other survivors.
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  #2  
Old 11-26-2017, 02:35 PM
kjab3112 kjab3112 is offline
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One problem is that the description is so vague and frankly average. Average height of military recruits at the time 5'6" to 5'8"; immigrant population likely to have a fair number of Irish, Poles, Scots, Scandinavians - blonde-ginger moustache more probable. Predominantly working class labourers locally - stocky with shabby appearance.

The flip side is IF they were the same person, the fact that Jack was Joe Average, perhaps that helped him blend in so well and gain the trust of the girls (Astrakhan man would've stood out like a sore thumb imo) and then disappear into the night
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  #3  
Old 11-26-2017, 04:00 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chava View Post
(Sorry! I put this in the wrong area originally!)

Iím seriously surprised Mr Blotchy is not being looked at as the #1 candidate for the Whitechapel Murderer. Here is Ada Wilsonís description of her attacker:
Height 5í6. Sunburnt face. Fair moustache. Dark coat, wideawake hat.

Here is Lawendeís description of the man seen with Catherine Eddowes before her death:
Height 5í 7-9. Fair complexion. Small fair moustache. Red necktie. Rough/shabby. Wearing a loose pepper and salt jacket and grey cloth cap. Slightly later versions have the moustache as Ďfullí.

Here is Mary Coxís description of the man seen going into her room at Millers Court with her:
Short, stout shabby man with a blotchy face and full carroty moustache. Billycock hat.

These descriptions all sound very similar.

The argument against Mr Blotchy is that Kelly was clearly alive and singing for an hour after she went into her room with him. However we donít know what the killerís MO was. He must have killed Eddowes fairly shortly after meeting her. But we have no idea how long he spent with the others. There are fairly large gaps in Nicholsí timeline and in Chapmanís and a reasonably large gap in Strideís. We canít extrapolate a pattern of behaviour from one murder in the series. I think itís entirely possible that he spent time with them before the killings. And even if his intent was to kill Kelly immediately, he had been seen by a witness entering her room. So itís in his best interest to leave her demonstrably alive for a while. Either that or move in which he likely didnít want to do.

As well, there is the second slash across the throat. Which is apparently known as the Ďinsurance cutí among pathologists. Makes sense. Ada Wilson survived to tell the tale. And may have forced him underground for a few months. He wouldnít want to leave any other survivors.
Hi Chava
Indeed, I have blotchy as my favored suspect along with hutch.

He was the last credible suspect seen with Mary, was never cleared and never came forward. He fits the profile of the avg. joe serial killer and as you mentioned fit several witness descriptions. I believe the man spotted at fiddymonts pub was also described as having reddish hair.

I also think if he was the killer, he didnít immediately kill Mary because of all the activity around millers court and may have bided his time until all was quiet.

The evidence seems to indicate Mary knew her killer, and of course their activity together seems to fit that, if even it was just a casual acquaintance.

I think he gets overlooked as a candidate for the ripper.
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"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

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  #4  
Old 11-26-2017, 04:12 PM
Harry D Harry D is offline
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Iím half-remembering but wasnít there a report of a policeman following a man who fit Blotchy's description? They didnít pursue it because at that point their focus had turned to Astrakhan? Something like that.
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  #5  
Old 11-26-2017, 05:27 PM
GUT GUT is offline
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One of the more reasonable suspects anyway.
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  #6  
Old 11-26-2017, 05:55 PM
Robert St Devil Robert St Devil is offline
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Hi Abby.

Joseph Taylor described the man leaving fiddymont's as having a long ginger-coloured mustache that curled at the ends. [Star, 10 Sep].

I've wondered if there was a connection between Blotchy and John Cleary, the man who visits the Herald's London office in 1889. I remember that man being described as having a boil on his face
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  #7  
Old 11-27-2017, 09:01 AM
barnflatwyngarde barnflatwyngarde is offline
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Chava,
Like you, I regard Blotchy as the prime suspect in Mary Kelly's murder, and probably the other canonical victims.

I posted a query on these boards asking "How Drunk Was Mary?" (link below)

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=8411

It was my first post to the boards, and in retrospect I asked the wrong question.
I was coming from the position of, why would Mary go out again after her assignation with Blotchy?

She was pretty drunk and was going to drink some more, courtesy of Blotchy's "pot of ale".

The weather was drizzly and the chance of getting another paid customer at 2.00am was remote.

So why on earth would she venture out?

As you can probably guess, I dismiss Hutchinson's testimony that he saw Kelly in the early hours.
I don't know exactly the truth of Hutchinson's testimony, he may have lied in order to scrounge a few meals off the Police as he was escorted round Whitechapel looking for Astrakhan man, or it may be that he simply got his dates mixed up.

If we could give Blotchy a name, I think that we would have several books written about this intriguing individual.

I think Blotchy was Jack the Ripper.
A sad, broad shouldered little man with a fondness for ale and murder.
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  #8  
Old 11-27-2017, 09:40 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barnflatwyngarde View Post
Chava,
Like you, I regard Blotchy as the prime suspect in Mary Kelly's murder, and probably the other canonical victims.

I posted a query on these boards asking "How Drunk Was Mary?" (link below)

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=8411

It was my first post to the boards, and in retrospect I asked the wrong question.
I was coming from the position of, why would Mary go out again after her assignation with Blotchy?

She was pretty drunk and was going to drink some more, courtesy of Blotchy's "pot of ale".

The weather was drizzly and the chance of getting another paid customer at 2.00am was remote.

So why on earth would she venture out?

As you can probably guess, I dismiss Hutchinson's testimony that he saw Kelly in the early hours.
I don't know exactly the truth of Hutchinson's testimony, he may have lied in order to scrounge a few meals off the Police as he was escorted round Whitechapel looking for Astrakhan man, or it may be that he simply got his dates mixed up.

If we could give Blotchy a name, I think that we would have several books written about this intriguing individual.

I think Blotchy was Jack the Ripper.
A sad, broad shouldered little man with a fondness for ale and murder.
Hi Barn
good post and I agree.
Re mary not going out again-I also agree with this. she was in no shape to be headed out again. I doubt Hutch saw her that night too. I think he did know her and went to her place maybe looking for a place to crash (or a hook up) and saw/heard she was already preoccupied, waited around for a while to see if her guest left and then left.

and then made up the aman story to profit from somehow.
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"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
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  #9  
Old 11-27-2017, 06:06 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barnflatwyngarde View Post
As you can probably guess, I dismiss Hutchinson's testimony that he saw Kelly in the early hours.
I don't know exactly the truth of Hutchinson's testimony, he may have lied in order to scrounge a few meals off the Police as he was escorted round Whitechapel looking for Astrakhan man, or it may be that he simply got his dates mixed up.
The Press Association:
Although no evidence was produced at the inquest as to her having left her room after one o'clock, at which time she was heard singing, the police have obtained statements from several persons who reside in Millers Court, that she was out of her house and in Dorset street between two and three o'clock. It appears almost certain that her life was taken about the last named hour.
Sheffield Evening Telegraph, Dundee Courier, Nottingham Evening Post, Morning Advertiser, Irish Times, Nov 14th 1888.

There is so much that we do not know.
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  #10  
Old 11-27-2017, 11:46 AM
jerryd jerryd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert St Devil View Post
I've wondered if there was a connection between Blotchy and John Cleary, the man who visits the Herald's London office in 1889. I remember that man being described as having a boil on his face
Hi RSD,

John Arnold does fit many witness descriptions. Also, interesting in his story is the young man Joseph Isaacs, as Michael Richards has put his name forth in regard to A-Man I think. And another man named Dennis Lynch.

Joseph Isaacs was being watched as a suspect at the time. I think Wickerman found he would have been in jail in Barnet the night of the Kelly murder but it's interesting he rented a room in Paternoster Row shortly before her murder. After serving a 21 day sentence he returned to the streets on December 3rd 1888. Three days later on December 6th he is arrested again for stealing a watch. The location he was arrested is what interests me. It was stated he was arrested on Back-Horse Street, Drury Lane. From my research there was no such named street on Drury Lane. However, there is of course White-Horse Yard and Blackmoor Street which are right next to each other off Drury Lane. White-Horse Yard was the former address of John Arnold and also the recent former address of Dennis Lynch who lived there under the alias of John Leary. I believe Back-Horse Street was a mis-hearing by the reporter for Blackmoor Street. Also within this tiny little area on Drury Lane on Newcastle Street was where Dennis Lynch worked for Mr. Matley and if coincidences mean anything, another street down from these two was Feathers Court, Drury Lane. This is where Pearly Poll retreated to for a few days after the Tabram murder.

Last edited by jerryd : 11-27-2017 at 11:48 AM.
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