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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Motive, Method and Madness

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  #1  
Old 10-08-2017, 04:51 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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Default Same motive = same killer

A thread for discussing whether the eviscerators in London 1888 were one or two men. Or more, for that matter...

Last edited by Fisherman : 10-08-2017 at 05:01 AM.
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  #2  
Old 10-08-2017, 05:03 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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Question:

Has there ever been any example of a town or region where two eviscerating serial killers have worked simultaneously?

Last edited by Fisherman : 10-08-2017 at 05:09 AM.
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  #3  
Old 10-30-2017, 07:33 AM
Garza Garza is offline
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Question:

Has there ever been any example of a town or region where two eviscerating serial killers have worked simultaneously?
Yes.

There has likely been two serial killers working for the last 20 years on Long Island, New York.

One is called the Long Island Serial Killer or the LISK killer, he kills prostitutes, he is also a trophy collector. You might have heard about it in the news where they found 4 dead women and a cross-dressing male in the scrub lined up beside the high way.

On Long Island is also the Manorville Butcher - he is a torso killer. Tends to lay body parts in clumps in the woods in different places.

When LISK started to get infamous via media, body parts started turning up where Lisk stashed his bodies. Some sleuthers think that this torso killer did it to mark his territory as in "Long Island is my hunting ground."

Interestingly The Thame Torso killings was strictly a West London affair, then Jack the Ripper happened - got infamous, then a single torso part happens to be found in Jack the Ripper's hunting ground? Is it like a challenge of sorts?

Last edited by Garza : 10-30-2017 at 07:36 AM.
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  #4  
Old 10-30-2017, 07:49 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Interestingly The Thame Torso killings was strictly a West London affair, then Jack the Ripper happened - got infamous, then a single torso part happens to be found in Jack the Ripper's hunting ground?
I've wondered about that, Garza, and it is interesting. However, the first torso murder after JTR rose to his height of infamy was Elizabeth Jackson, and that was a West London affair.
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Old 10-30-2017, 08:03 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Yes.

There has likely been two serial killers working for the last 20 years on Long Island, New York.

One is called the Long Island Serial Killer or the LISK killer, he kills prostitutes, he is also a trophy collector. You might have heard about it in the news where they found 4 dead women and a cross-dressing male in the scrub lined up beside the high way.

On Long Island is also the Manorville Butcher - he is a torso killer. Tends to lay body parts in clumps in the woods in different places.

When LISK started to get infamous via media, body parts started turning up where Lisk stashed his bodies. Some sleuthers think that this torso killer did it to mark his territory as in "Long Island is my hunting ground."

Interestingly The Thame Torso killings was strictly a West London affair, then Jack the Ripper happened - got infamous, then a single torso part happens to be found in Jack the Ripper's hunting ground? Is it like a challenge of sorts?
Hi Garza
dosnt Jessica taylor and Jane doe # 6 link the two series?

I believe both victims had body parts dismemebered and dumped in both sites.

also, body parts of the victims linked definitively to the LISK have been found so he is also a dismemberer.

also, Melissa Barthelemy(definite LISK victim) had made calls to Manorville around the time of her death.

also, both series involve males and females-so another link.(is the killer more than likely bi sexual?)

and any way the question actually is not if two dismemberers have worked in the same town/time, but if two "eviscerators" have. meaning a serial killer is cutting up and into bodies to get at internal organs. I think the distinction is made since the former could just be MO in helping dispose of a body, whereas the latter goes to sig, and is much more rare.

and re idea of hunting ground/challenge to another serial killer. Interesting, but IMHO its much more likely that its the same man whos just changing (maybe slightly) the dump site.

I also see no special significance(to the killer) to where Lisk/Manorville killer is dumping or how dumping, unlike the torsoripper.
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Last edited by Abby Normal : 10-30-2017 at 08:10 AM.
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  #6  
Old 10-30-2017, 08:20 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
and any way the question actually is not if two dismemberers have worked in the same town/time, but if two "eviscerators" have. meaning a serial killer is cutting up and into bodies to get at internal organs. I think the distinction is made since the former could just be MO in helping dispose of a body, whereas the latter goes to sig, and is much more rare.
Was the TK an eviscerator, though, or someone who happened to eviscerate in order to facilitate the disposal of anonymised victims? Was Dahmer an eviscerator? Was Nilsen? Was Gein, or any other killer who happened to cut through their victims' abdomens?
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Old 10-30-2017, 08:27 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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Was the TK an eviscerator, though, or someone who happened to eviscerate in order to facilitate the disposal of anonymised victims? Was Dahmer an eviscerator? Was Nilsen? Was Gein, or any other killer who happened to cut through their victims' abdomens?
Once you pluck out innards from a body, you become an eviscerator. The grounds for doing it may vary, but that does not change the fact that you eviscerate when you take out parts from inside a body.

Maybe we can agree on that much, at least?

A dictionary example looked like this:

"The ancient Egyptiand used to eviscerate bodies before mummifying them"

Evisceration is not an evil thing per se. But taking out organs IS eviscerating.

Last edited by Fisherman : 10-30-2017 at 08:36 AM.
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Old 10-30-2017, 08:23 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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Hi Garza
dosnt Jessica taylor and Jane doe # 6 link the two series?

I believe both victims had body parts dismemebered and dumped in both sites.

also, body parts of the victims linked definitively to the LISK have been found so he is also a dismemberer.

also, Melissa Barthelemy(definite LISK victim) had made calls to Manorville around the time of her death.

also, both series involve males and females-so another link.(is the killer more than likely bi sexual?)

and any way the question actually is not if two dismemberers have worked in the same town/time, but if two "eviscerators" have. meaning a serial killer is cutting up and into bodies to get at internal organs. I think the distinction is made since the former could just be MO in helping dispose of a body, whereas the latter goes to sig, and is much more rare.

and re idea of hunting ground/challenge to another serial killer. Interesting, but IMHO its much more likely that its the same man whos just changing (maybe slightly) the dump site.

I also see no special significance(to the killer) to where Lisk/Manorville killer is dumping or how dumping, unlike the torsoripper.
Apparently, you knew this case a lot better than I do, Abby. And it would seem it is not a clear-cut example of two eviscerators, the way it stands. The future may hold the solution to that riddle.
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Old 10-30-2017, 08:21 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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Originally Posted by Garza View Post
Yes.

There has likely been two serial killers working for the last 20 years on Long Island, New York.

One is called the Long Island Serial Killer or the LISK killer, he kills prostitutes, he is also a trophy collector. You might have heard about it in the news where they found 4 dead women and a cross-dressing male in the scrub lined up beside the high way.

On Long Island is also the Manorville Butcher - he is a torso killer. Tends to lay body parts in clumps in the woods in different places.

When LISK started to get infamous via media, body parts started turning up where Lisk stashed his bodies. Some sleuthers think that this torso killer did it to mark his territory as in "Long Island is my hunting ground."

Interestingly The Thame Torso killings was strictly a West London affair, then Jack the Ripper happened - got infamous, then a single torso part happens to be found in Jack the Ripper's hunting ground? Is it like a challenge of sorts?
Interesting, of course - and I have heard about the Long Island murders. But I take it it is no proven thing that there really ARE two serialists at work?

One of the things that have arrived with the great media interest in serial killing will be - if I am on the money - an increased insight on behalf of the serialists of how to behave so as not to be traceable.

My guess - and it is no more than that, I freely admit that much - is that there are today serialists who manage to stay uncaught on behalf of how the swithch MO:s, fae signatures and move over great areas.

Maybe the Long Island case is one of a serialist who employs such tactics, I don´t know - I am not well enough read up on it.

Anyhow, I hear your suggestion, but I will point out - as I have often stated - that regadless if we DO find a town where two eviscerators have worked simultaneously, it will only go to prove that such a thing is incredibly rare.
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  #10  
Old 10-30-2017, 10:23 AM
RockySullivan RockySullivan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garza View Post
Some sleuthers think that this torso killer did it to mark his territory as in "Long Island is my hunting ground."
Nobody should think this since all the torso victims on OP were dumped years and even decades before the gilgo 4
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