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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Police Officials and Procedures > General Police Discussion

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  #11  
Old 12-02-2014, 01:29 PM
Bridewell Bridewell is offline
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Monty is the expert here but the following is from Dickens's Dictionary of London 1888:-

"Fixed Points (Police):

The undermentioned places are appointed as fixed points where a police constable is to be permanently stationed from 9pm to 1am.

In the event of any person springing a rattle, or persistently ringing a bell in the street or in an area, the police will at once proceed to the spot and render assistance."

Fixed Points were more restrictive than Beat Patrols but even an officer on a Fixed Point was expected, in case of need "at once to proceed to the spot and render assistance". Mizen should have acted with more immediacy than he did, probably not wanting to get involved in a 'J' Division problem. My suspicion is that he invented Lechmere & Paul's claim that there was already an officer present in anticipation of criticism of his tardiness. (Fisherman will disagree ).
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  #12  
Old 12-02-2014, 01:38 PM
David Orsam David Orsam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bridewell View Post
Mizen should have acted with more immediacy than he did, probably not wanting to get involved in a 'J' Division problem. My suspicion is that he invented Lechmere & Paul's claim that there was already an officer present in anticipation of criticism of his tardiness. (Fisherman will disagree ).
I'm not sure you have grasped the point I was making which was that if Mizen had been summoned to Bucks Row by a policeman (because a body was lying there) he was, presumably, duty bound to attend "at once". So he has not actually helped himself in any way if he invented the claim that he was called to the scene by an officer.
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  #13  
Old 12-02-2014, 01:43 PM
Simon Wood Simon Wood is offline
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Hi All,

So, misunderstanding is the key to the Whitechapel murders?

Nobody lied. Everyone told the truth.

Small wonder we've got absolutely nowhere over the past 126 years.

Regards,

Simon
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  #14  
Old 12-02-2014, 01:45 PM
David Orsam David Orsam is offline
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Quote:
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Hi All,

So, misunderstanding is the key to the Whitechapel murders?

Nobody lied. Everyone told the truth.

Small wonder we've got absolutely nowhere over the past 126 years.
Although the notion that Cross might have lied doesn't seem to have played well with you. (irony?)
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  #15  
Old 12-02-2014, 01:46 PM
Bridewell Bridewell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Orsam View Post
I'm not sure you have grasped the point I was making which was that if Mizen had been summoned to Bucks Row by a policeman (because a body was lying there) he was, presumably, duty bound to attend "at once". So he has not actually helped himself in any way if he invented the claim that he was called to the scene by an officer.
He would be helping himself by such an invention because he would be creating a scenario wherein a "J" Division officer was already present and dealing with the problem.

If, in fact, Lechmere & Paul simply told him of a woman either dead or drunk on Bucks Row (as was claimed) he would have failed in the first duty of a police officer - the protection of life.
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  #16  
Old 12-02-2014, 01:51 PM
Monty Monty is offline
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What a clear cut world you live in Simon.

Monty
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  #17  
Old 12-02-2014, 01:57 PM
David Orsam David Orsam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bridewell View Post
He would be helping himself by such an invention because he would be creating a scenario wherein a "J" Division officer was already present and dealing with the problem.
But he wasn't simply saying that "an officer was already present". The quote Mizen attributed to Cross (according to the press reports) was: "You are wanted in Buck’s row by a policeman. A woman is lying there". If the quote was "You had better go to Buck's Row. There is a policeman there, and a woman is lying there" what you say would make sense. But why claim he had been summoned to Bucks Row if he wasn't going to immediately answer that summons?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bridewell View Post
If, in fact, Lechmere & Paul simply told him of a woman either dead or drunk on Bucks Row (as was claimed) he would have failed in the first duty of a police officer - the protection of life.
How would attending to a drunk woman in Bucks Row involve the protection of life? Or a dead woman for that matter!
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Old 08-06-2017, 12:04 PM
Pierre Pierre is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Orsam View Post
But he wasn't simply saying that "an officer was already present". The quote Mizen attributed to Cross (according to the press reports) was: "You are wanted in Buck’s row by a policeman. A woman is lying there". If the quote was "You had better go to Buck's Row. There is a policeman there, and a woman is lying there" what you say would make sense. But why claim he had been summoned to Bucks Row if he wasn't going to immediately answer that summons?

How would attending to a drunk woman in Bucks Row involve the protection of life? Or a dead woman for that matter!
I guess we may soon have the answers to these questions from Steve.

Pierre
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  #19  
Old 08-06-2017, 12:29 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Orsam View Post
How would attending to a drunk woman in Bucks Row involve the protection of life? Or a dead woman for that matter!
A drunk woman sparked out on the pavement might need help, and a dead body would need to be officially dealt with. He could hardly have ignored the situation, especially given that two men (Cross & Paul) had gone out of their way to find a police officer. Clearly something was up.
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  #20  
Old 08-06-2017, 12:37 PM
David Orsam David Orsam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
A drunk woman sparked out on the pavement might need help, and a dead body would need to be officially dealt with. He could hardly have ignored the situation, especially given that two men (Cross & Paul) had gone out of their way to find a police officer. Clearly something was up.
Yes and he didn't ignore the situation. He went round to Bucks Row. The question was whether it was his "first duty".
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