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  #11  
Old 09-13-2016, 01:27 PM
YomRippur YomRippur is offline
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Originally Posted by spyglass View Post
Hi,
Hanging around somewhere for 35 minutes is a long time to hang about straight after a murder, especially if he always intended to head back through Goulston Street, which using a short cut is about six minutes away.
Surely he would be putting himself more at risk of being stopped by hanging around close by.
which of course suggests he may have gone the slightly longer route ( about 12 mins ) through Aldgate , but by doing that he would be walking back in the direction towards where Stride was murdered which I assume would be swarming with police.

Regards
But it wouldn't have been risky if he had gone to a hiding place, possibly his home. That might have also explained the apparently different clothing seen by Israel Schwartz and Joseph Lawende. After killing Stride, the killer might have gone home and changed to clean clothing (35 minutes passed), gone back out, killed Eddowes, gone home again and changed (another 35 minutes), grabbed a piece of chalk and gone out to Goulston Street. All these trips he was able to make strengthens the motion that his hiding place/home was probably somewhere in the vicinity of Flower & Dean Street (as already suggested by others).
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  #12  
Old 09-13-2016, 01:40 PM
YomRippur YomRippur is offline
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Originally Posted by jerryd View Post
Abby,

I've posted this before but to me, this makes the most sense, and a solid reason for the difference in the two killings that night. Two murderers working in collusion.

Philadelphia Times, December 3, 1888

TWO MURDERERS. The city detectives then early in the first week of October came to a definite conclusion, namely, that the two women met their death at the hands of different men. It was but taking a single step further to conclude that these two men were acting in collusion. The long interval that had elapsed between this and the previous butchery, the fact that the women belonged to the same class and the coincidence that the killing was done within the same thirty-five minutes all pointed to the same conclusion - that the murders had been deliberately planned, probably to be consummated at the same moment, for if even a couple of hours had elapsed between the two crimes the neighborhood would on the discovery of the first, have become so "hot" that the perpetrator of the second outrage would have found the matter of his escape rendered doubly difficult.
The two brainy men who thus theorized, although they firmly believed they had at last opened the case, were still at a loss in what direction to look for the authors of the fearful crimes. With the utmost patience they sought out the degraded companions of the dead women, and bit by bit they learned all that probably ever will be known of their habits, tastes and mode of life.
The problem with the two-murderer theory is that murders were actually quite rare in Whitechapel at the time; so it was not probable that two women were killed within 35 minutes by different killers with the same kind of throat-cutting in the same neighbordhood. Therefore it was deduced pretty early on that they were probably killed by the same hand, with the first killing seemingly unfinished. Over a century has passed and this still seems to be the most likely and correct deduction.

Last edited by YomRippur : 09-13-2016 at 02:05 PM.
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  #13  
Old 09-13-2016, 01:44 PM
spyglass spyglass is offline
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Originally Posted by YomRippur View Post
But it wouldn't have been risky if he had gone to a hiding place, possibly his home. That might have also explained the apparently different clothing seen by Israel Schwartz and Joseph Lawende. After killing Stride, the killer might have gone home and changed to clean clothing (35 minutes passed), gone back out, killed Eddowes, gone home again and changed (another 35 minutes), grabbed a piece of chalk and gone out to Goulston Street. All these trips he was able to make strengthens the motion that his hiding place/home was probably somewhere in the vicinity of Flower & Dean Street (as already suggested by others).
Assuming he killed Stride, going home to clean up and then going back out to murder, it seems odd to head back in the direction of his first murder instead of going out in a different direction.
If he hadn't of bumped into Eddowes by chance ( assuming he wasn't meeting her ) he was heading even further closer to the Stride murder in search for a victim.

Regards
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  #14  
Old 09-13-2016, 02:04 PM
YomRippur YomRippur is offline
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Originally Posted by spyglass View Post
Assuming he killed Stride, going home to clean up and then going back out to murder, it seems odd to head back in the direction of his first murder instead of going out in a different direction.
If he hadn't of bumped into Eddowes by chance ( assuming he wasn't meeting her ) he was heading even further closer to the Stride murder in search for a victim.

Regards
The route of Berner Street -> Flower & Dean Street -> Mitre Square was roughly westward, so there wasn't any drastic change of direction. Of course, going eastward from Mitre Square was a drastic 180-degree turn. All this strengthens the notion of where his possible hiding place/home would have been.
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  #15  
Old 09-13-2016, 05:00 PM
jerryd jerryd is offline
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Originally Posted by YomRippur View Post
The problem with the two-murderer theory is that murders were actually quite rare in Whitechapel at the time; so it was not probable that two women were killed within 35 minutes by different killers with the same kind of throat-cutting in the same neighbordhood. Therefore it was deduced pretty early on that they were probably killed by the same hand, with the first killing seemingly unfinished. Over a century has passed and this still seems to be the most likely and correct deduction.
Hi Yom and Thanks,

Dr. Phillips felt the two murders were by a different hand. His assistant, Dr. Percy Clark also felt only 3 of the 5 canonicals were by the same hand. Superintendent Arnold felt "Miss Kelly" was by a different hand than the others. There really isn't a 100% agreement by anyone on anything.

As far as probability of another killer? There was another killer at the same time frame. The Torso killer. So statistics of another serial killer being unlikely means little, really.
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  #16  
Old 09-14-2016, 03:09 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is online now
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Originally Posted by jerryd View Post
Hi Yom and Thanks,

Dr. Phillips felt the two murders were by a different hand. His assistant, Dr. Percy Clark also felt only 3 of the 5 canonicals were by the same hand. Superintendent Arnold felt "Miss Kelly" was by a different hand than the others. There really isn't a 100% agreement by anyone on anything.

As far as probability of another killer? There was another killer at the same time frame. The Torso killer. So statistics of another serial killer being unlikely means little, really.
The Ripper and the torso killer seems to me to have been one and the same man, Jerry. But there are other examples, more close in time, of multiple killers in the same town.
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  #17  
Old 09-14-2016, 08:16 AM
Michael W Richards Michael W Richards is offline
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Originally Posted by Harry D View Post
I believe he saw the apron and paid it no mind, or he just missed it.
Fortunately we dont need to speculate about it Harry, he said "It was not there" when he passed by around 2:20am. Seems he felt comfortable taking a stand on the matter even if you or others aren't.
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  #18  
Old 09-14-2016, 08:23 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is online now
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Fortunately we dont need to speculate about it Harry, he said "It was not there" when he passed by around 2:20am. Seems he felt comfortable taking a stand on the matter even if you or others aren't.
Itīs even been suggested that Long may have said "It was not there" in a hesitating voice...

Last edited by Fisherman : 09-14-2016 at 08:25 AM.
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  #19  
Old 09-14-2016, 08:47 AM
Harry D Harry D is offline
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Fortunately we dont need to speculate about it Harry, he said "It was not there" when he passed by around 2:20am. Seems he felt comfortable taking a stand on the matter even if you or others aren't.
And he was fired less than a year later for being drunk on duty. Is this an officer we can trust?
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  #20  
Old 09-14-2016, 09:12 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is online now
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And he was fired less than a year later for being drunk on duty. Is this an officer we can trust?
It is an officer we must trust until anything surfaces to contradict him. It is that simple. There was never any counterweight in this errand, all we have is Long emphatically denying that the rag was there at 2.20, and so that sets the agenda.

Anybody who wants to work from the presumption that the rag was there at 2.20 will do so in conflict with the evidence. For whatever reason.
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