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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Social Chat > Shades of Whitechapel

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  #21  
Old 08-30-2016, 08:47 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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Are you denying that he killed at least five victims within 12 weeks?
I can not deny it OR confirm it. That´s the crux, Harry. We are left with speculation only. And my personal speculation tells me that the same killer did the torso series AND the Ripper series - in which case your thoughts about him not being able to control himself go out the window.
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  #22  
Old 08-30-2016, 11:04 AM
Harry D Harry D is offline
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Hi Harry
just off the top of my head-Bundy.
very comparable to ripper/torso man in the things you mentioned.
sometimes he had greater self control-other times not. killed two women (not together) in one day. went spells were he held off. went berserk and attacked multiple women on one night.

His MO changed and as a matter of fact if he wasn't caught and we knew exactly which women were his victims, they wouldn't have been able to link because some were so different it even looked like the signature was different.
Bundy wasn't a family man who killed over a period of decades. His killing spree spanned approximately four years and he managed to get a lot done in that time before he slipped up.

Lechmerian's favourite hobbyhorse is someone like Dennis Rader. They often cite him as proof positive that family men can lead a "normal" life whilst moonlighting as a murderous psycho. Then you see that Rader murdered 10 victims (four of whom were mass-murdered) over a period of 17 years. That's how Rader was able to live this double-life, either because he had a greater degree of self-control or his impulses weren't as strong as other serial killers. Did the Ripper exhibit Rader-esque restraint? He killed half as many victims as Rader in a fraction of the time!
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  #23  
Old 08-30-2016, 11:30 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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Bundy wasn't a family man who killed over a period of decades. His killing spree spanned approximately four years and he managed to get a lot done in that time before he slipped up.

Lechmerian's favourite hobbyhorse is someone like Dennis Rader. They often cite him as proof positive that family men can lead a "normal" life whilst moonlighting as a murderous psycho. Then you see that Rader murdered 10 victims (four of whom were mass-murdered) over a period of 17 years. That's how Rader was able to live this double-life, either because he had a greater degree of self-control or his impulses weren't as strong as other serial killers. Did the Ripper exhibit Rader-esque restraint? He killed half as many victims as Rader in a fraction of the time!
You seem still unable to take on board what I am telling you: you do not know how many victims the Ripper claimed, nor do you know over which span of years he was at work. You speak of the MacNaghten view as if it was a definitely established truth. It is not.
If the Ripper and the torso man were one and the same, then there is at least a ten year hiatus to explain. How´s that for a restraint?
Much as you dislike Rader, he nevertheless is a good example of how serial killers may refrain from killing. There are others, though, if Rader displeases you too much. One such man is the so called Grim Sleeper, who earned his nickname for lying dormant for 14 years. And there are others too.
I am not saying that your thinking does not make sense - it does, to a degree. The problem is, we do not know that degree.
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  #24  
Old 08-30-2016, 01:25 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Originally Posted by Harry D View Post
Bundy wasn't a family man who killed over a period of decades. His killing spree spanned approximately four years and he managed to get a lot done in that time before he slipped up.

Lechmerian's favourite hobbyhorse is someone like Dennis Rader. They often cite him as proof positive that family men can lead a "normal" life whilst moonlighting as a murderous psycho. Then you see that Rader murdered 10 victims (four of whom were mass-murdered) over a period of 17 years. That's how Rader was able to live this double-life, either because he had a greater degree of self-control or his impulses weren't as strong as other serial killers. Did the Ripper exhibit Rader-esque restraint? He killed half as many victims as Rader in a fraction of the time!
Hi Harry
Bundy didn't have kids but he had Normal female relationships-and definitely had a "double life".His first documented murder was in 1974, but he admitted to murders and attempted kidnappings as early as 1969 and many believe he committed his first murder of a young girl in 1961.

And yes Rader is another example of a family man killer who spans decades and can wait long periods of time in between killings. and use different MO also.

as is Ridgeway. the list goes on.

I guess I don't really understand your point then. The ripper and torso man cases are unsolved-they could have been the same man. So I'm giving you examples of serial killers who are similar if they were.

and the Chinese ripper is yet another example.
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  #25  
Old 08-30-2016, 02:29 PM
jmenges jmenges is offline
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. There are others, though, if Rader displeases you too much. One such man is the so called Grim Sleeper, who earned his nickname for lying dormant for 14 years. And there are others too.
Los Angeles Times May 8, 2016

LAPD believes 'Grim Sleeper' serial killer never actually slept

"Authorities believe the Grim Sleeper never really slept, and that Thomas' slaying in 2000 helps prove that.

"I don't think he stopped killing," said LAPD Det. Daryn Dupree, the last remaining detective who worked on the task force that arrested Franklin.

In all, investigators believe Franklin is responsible for at least 25 slayings, including 11 that took place during the supposed dormant period that led to his sobriquet."

http://www.latimes.com/local/crime/l...508-story.html

JM
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  #26  
Old 08-31-2016, 12:42 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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Los Angeles Times May 8, 2016

LAPD believes 'Grim Sleeper' serial killer never actually slept

"Authorities believe the Grim Sleeper never really slept, and that Thomas' slaying in 2000 helps prove that.

"I don't think he stopped killing," said LAPD Det. Daryn Dupree, the last remaining detective who worked on the task force that arrested Franklin.

In all, investigators believe Franklin is responsible for at least 25 slayings, including 11 that took place during the supposed dormant period that led to his sobriquet."

http://www.latimes.com/local/crime/l...508-story.html

JM
So, a LAPD policeman thinks the Grim Sleeper kept killing.

Somehow, I would prefer evidence to speculations. And I am quite convinced that there are scores of serialists who stopped killing - and who were never caught.
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  #27  
Old 08-31-2016, 04:32 AM
jmenges jmenges is offline
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So, a LAPD policeman thinks the Grim Sleeper kept killing.

Somehow, I would prefer evidence to speculations.
So, with one sweep you completely dismiss all of the circumstantial evidence that Franklin murdered possibly 11 more women during his so-called 'sleeping' period, some of said evidence was allowed to be presented during his sentencing hearing, yet believe you have enough circumstantial evidence to accuse Lech of killing all of the Ripper's victims plus the Torso murders. You're a master detective, Fish. It's a loss to humanity that you didn't choose a career in law enforcement.

JM
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  #28  
Old 08-31-2016, 09:47 AM
Harry D Harry D is offline
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Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
Hi Harry
Bundy didn't have kids but he had Normal female relationships-and definitely had a "double life".His first documented murder was in 1974, but he admitted to murders and attempted kidnappings as early as 1969 and many believe he committed his first murder of a young girl in 1961.

And yes Rader is another example of a family man killer who spans decades and can wait long periods of time in between killings. and use different MO also.

as is Ridgeway. the list goes on.

I guess I don't really understand your point then. The ripper and torso man cases are unsolved-they could have been the same man. So I'm giving you examples of serial killers who are similar if they were.

and the Chinese ripper is yet another example.
It's impossible to make behavioural comparisons between known serial killers and the 'Ripper' for the simple reasons that a) the Ripper was never caught, and b) we don't know if there even was a serial killer.
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  #29  
Old 08-31-2016, 10:17 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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So, with one sweep you completely dismiss all of the circumstantial evidence that Franklin murdered possibly 11 more women during his so-called 'sleeping' period, some of said evidence was allowed to be presented during his sentencing hearing, yet believe you have enough circumstantial evidence to accuse Lech of killing all of the Ripper's victims plus the Torso murders. You're a master detective, Fish. It's a loss to humanity that you didn't choose a career in law enforcement.

JM
How can I dismiss any evidence at all? I am not that familiar with the case. But I do know that the moniker the Grim Sleeper was given since there was a parceived gap in the killings. And I do know that other killers have had such gaps too. And - as I said - I am certain that a number of the undisclosed serialists simply stopped killing.
Whether I am a master detective or not is as written in the stars. I think I have a pretty solid case against Lechmere as well as for the two series being the work of one man only. And as far as I can tell, I am entitled to that stance.
And of course, you are entitled to scorn and laugh and make a fool of yourself over it.
Reasonably, one of us is being productive.
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  #30  
Old 08-31-2016, 10:19 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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It's impossible to make behavioural comparisons between known serial killers and the 'Ripper' for the simple reasons that a) the Ripper was never caught, and b) we don't know if there even was a serial killer.
Good job, Harry - you are catching on!
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