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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Social Chat > Shades of Whitechapel

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  #11  
Old 10-24-2015, 04:42 AM
mklhawley mklhawley is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
Has there ever been a serial killer that removed and took away internal organs like the ripper?
Hi Abby,

Here's one:

Chicago Tribune, November 18, 1888:

THE WHITECHAPEL MURDERS.
…That a person with homicidal tendency goes without saying. He has been set down as a lunatic of murderous disposition; a crazed medical student; a wronged man taking revenge upon dissolute women in general because one of their class has done him an injury; a madman with irrepressible spoils of murderous insanity; and a victim of Middle Age superstition whose object it is to make “thieves’ candles” from the organs which he takes away – a practice which is described specifically in the criminal codes of the seventeenth century. The survival of the superstition among German thieves to this day is shown by the trial of a case at Biala in Galicia as lat as 1875, where the body of a woman was found mutilated in precisely the same manner as the Whitechapel victims…


Jewish Chronicle, October 12, 1888:

THE RITTER CASE.
Dr. Bloch, Member of the Austrian Reichsrath, in communicating to the Standard correspondent in Vienna certain facts which may throw a new light on the Whitechapel murders, refers incidentally to the Ritter case. Dr. Bloch speaks of an old superstition still rife in parts of Germany, that the light thrown from "thieve's candles" or "soporific candles," which are made from certain organs in the female body, will send those on whom it falls into a deep sleep, and thereby become a valuable instrument for thieves. At the trial of the Ritters in Galicia, the prevalence among thieves of the superstition was alluded to by the Public Prosecutor. But the Court preferred harping on another alleged superstition of a ritual character among the Jews of Galicia, which, however, was shown to be a pure invention of the Judenhetze. Dr. Bloch was for ten years a Chief Rabbi in Galicia, and has made the superstitions of that province his special study.


Sincerely,

Mike
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  #12  
Old 10-24-2015, 05:56 AM
jerryd jerryd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
Is that what you believe the ripper did ? What are your sources to prove that this is correct ?

www.trevormarriott.co.uk
Echo London Middlesex November 13, 1888

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  #13  
Old 10-24-2015, 08:56 AM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerryd View Post
Echo London Middlesex November 13, 1888

So a newspaper report is conclusive proof ? I dont think so
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  #14  
Old 10-24-2015, 11:13 PM
RockySullivan RockySullivan is offline
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Originally Posted by sdreid View Post
The Cleveland Torso Killer took away heads which contained an internal organ-the brain. John Johnson took livers.
Didn't the Mad Butcher also take away an external organ...in the one case of the identified male?
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  #15  
Old 10-25-2015, 04:36 AM
sdreid sdreid is offline
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Originally Posted by RockySullivan View Post
Didn't the Mad Butcher also take away an external organ...in the one case of the identified male?
Not sure. Assuming you mean Andrassy, he was emasculated but I think that part was found with the same of the companion victim.
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  #16  
Old 10-25-2015, 08:48 AM
Errata Errata is offline
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I think in a weird way that cutting out the organs is the significant part. Taking the organ or leaving it (given that we don't know what he did with it) could be an incidental choice, could be significant, could be the point of the whole exercise. But it's the cutting it out part that we know for sure is important. He might not have really wanted the organs, he might have just really wanted them not to have them for whatever reason. I don't think the comparisons should be limited to only those who took the organs away. There is a lot to learned from comparing them to those who left the organs behind as well.
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  #17  
Old 10-25-2015, 09:09 AM
RivkahChaya RivkahChaya is offline
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Jeffrey Dahmer had a fridge full of body parts, and a couple of skulls, from what I remember of the news articles of the time. He also ate at least one muscle.

Of course, if you watch Criminal Minds, every other week, there's a serial killer who does this.
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  #18  
Old 10-25-2015, 01:51 PM
Errata Errata is offline
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Originally Posted by RivkahChaya View Post
Jeffrey Dahmer had a fridge full of body parts, and a couple of skulls, from what I remember of the news articles of the time. He also ate at least one muscle.

Of course, if you watch Criminal Minds, every other week, there's a serial killer who does this.
I particularly like the episode with the kid from Dawson's Creek cuddling a severed leg. There was a weird crash in my head with that.
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  #19  
Old 10-26-2015, 02:58 AM
RivkahChaya RivkahChaya is offline
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Originally Posted by Errata View Post
I particularly like the episode with the kid from Dawson's Creek cuddling a severed leg. There was a weird crash in my head with that.
I liked the one where Laura Palmer's father was trying to amputate a leg from one person, and graft them onto another person. Boy, once you've done David Lynch, you never get to play normal again. I think he was also the UnSub on a season 1 or 2 episode. Or maybe he was just the main suspect, who then didn't do it, but he was "creepy priest" (those guys never learn-- it's axiomatically not the first person they suspect) from casting central.

Actually, David Lynch was very fond of severed body parts. Practically every scene from his movies of shows has either a severed part, or a person missing a limb, even if it's just a mounted deer head lying on a conference table. That guy is like a serial killer who has never actually killed anyone.

My husband hates Criminal Minds because it's so cheesy, and the science is so out there, but that's why I love it. It's like Gilligan's Island-- really very campy when you get right down to it.

[/hijack]
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  #20  
Old 10-26-2015, 08:53 AM
Errata Errata is offline
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To return to the topic, though your point on David Lynch casting is spot on, without knowing what he did with the organs (though many of us suspect he ate them or preserved them) we don't know why he took them.

Taking eyes has special significance. It has it's profile. It could be the same impulse that drives someone to take eyes. People who take eyes attach a special significance to the eyes. It's cheesy to say they are the windows of the soul, but to an enucleator, they kind of are. They represent the person they killed in a special way. A uterus can serve the same function. It can be seen as the soul of the woman, the thing that makes her who she is. In which case, other serial killers who take out organs might not be the best match. Those who take eyes might be a better analog.

Or if these murders are motivated by punishment, the removal of the organs may be how he is punishing them. He doesn't want them to have a uterus. But that doesn't mean he especially wants it either. He might be taking it away as a trophy, but he might be taking it away because punishing her means taking it away. Leaving it next to her might be leaving it still in her possession in his eyes. And he might throw it in the trash when he gets home, because that's his punishment scenario. She can't have it, but he doesn't value it either. There might be an analog with Kemper there. Tearing out his mother's voice box and putting it in the garbage disposal. But Kemper is otherwise a bad analog. Most of his murders were for a different reason. Reasons and methods that don't line up with the Ripper.

It's hard to say who is the best analog, at least with as little information as we have.
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