Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Main
   

Introduction
Victims
Suspects
Witnesses
Ripper Letters
Police Officials
Official Documents
Press Reports
Victorian London
Message Boards
Ripper Media
Authors
Dissertations
Timelines
Games & Diversions
Photo Archive
Ripper Wiki
Casebook Examiner
Ripper Podcast
About the Casebook

Most Recent Posts:
Annie Chapman: Annie's scarf - by Sam Flynn 11 minutes ago.
Annie Chapman: Annie's scarf - by Wickerman 21 minutes ago.
Maybrick, James: 25 YEARS OF THE DIARY OF JACK THE RIPPER: THE TRUE FACTS by Robert Smith - by Graham 33 minutes ago.
Maybrick, James: 25 YEARS OF THE DIARY OF JACK THE RIPPER: THE TRUE FACTS by Robert Smith - by Sam Flynn 57 minutes ago.
Goulston Street Graffito: The GSG - Did Jack write it? POLL - by Wickerman 1 hour and 6 minutes ago.
Goulston Street Graffito: The GSG - Did Jack write it? POLL - by Sam Flynn 1 hour and 15 minutes ago.

Most Popular Threads:
Maybrick, James: 25 YEARS OF THE DIARY OF JACK THE RIPPER: THE TRUE FACTS by Robert Smith - (93 posts)
Goulston Street Graffito: The GSG - Did Jack write it? POLL - (18 posts)
Annie Chapman: Annie's scarf - (15 posts)
Feigenbaum, Carl: A Likely Suspect? - (11 posts)
Witnesses: Israel Schwartz - new information - (5 posts)
Audio -- Visual: A mannequin prop of Catherine Eddowes' corpse for a new play about Jack the Ripper. - (3 posts)

Wiki Updates:
Robert Sagar
Edit: Chris
May 9, 2015, 12:32 am
Online newspaper archives
Edit: Chris
Nov 26, 2014, 10:25 am
Joseph Lawende
Edit: Chris
Mar 9, 2014, 10:12 am
Miscellaneous research resources
Edit: Chris
Feb 13, 2014, 9:28 am
Charles Cross
Edit: John Bennett
Sep 4, 2013, 8:20 pm

Most Recent Blogs:
Mike Covell: A DECADE IN THE MAKING.
February 19, 2016, 11:12 am.
Chris George: RipperCon in Baltimore, April 8-10, 2016
February 10, 2016, 2:55 pm.
Mike Covell: Hull Prison Visit
October 10, 2015, 8:04 am.
Mike Covell: NEW ADVENTURES IN RESEARCH
August 9, 2015, 3:10 am.
Mike Covell: UPDDATES FOR THE PAST 11 MONTHS
November 14, 2014, 10:02 am.
Mike Covell: Mike’s Book Releases
March 17, 2014, 3:18 am.

Go Back   Casebook Forums > Social Chat > Shades of Whitechapel

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #11  
Old 10-23-2012, 10:18 PM
DarkPassenger DarkPassenger is offline
Detective
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 355
Default

An excellent site which, if it's details are indeed correct, are incredibly useful to this thread;

http://www.altereddimensions.net/cri...ialKiller.aspx

It helped me address questions over the killer's evolving disposal method. I was confused by Jane Doe 4, you see. I had assumed the killer began by decapitating and de-handing the bodies and leaving them in the forest, dumping the extremities on Ocean Parkway, before moving onto dumping the bodies entirely in Ocean Parkway because both Manorville victims had been found. This site argues that Jane Doe 4's murder is in fact a logical step in the killer's evolution, and I buy it.

I have to say, no identities and few clear facts make this a frustrating case. I do wonder what the police are doing holding so many cards close to their chests with this one.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-23-2012, 11:39 PM
curious curious is offline
Chief Inspector
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 1,502
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkPassenger View Post


Would any kind of Ranger, or similar, operate in national parks across state lines? Would seasonality affect where they are working? Is this "wildlife park" link at all viable?
Hi, Dark Passenger,

It is very viable. Go to coolworks.com and check it out.

However, it opens the case wider than just to rangers.

good thoughts.

curious
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-24-2012, 10:49 AM
curious curious is offline
Chief Inspector
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 1,502
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkPassenger View Post
An excellent site which, if it's details are indeed correct, are incredibly useful to this thread;

http://www.altereddimensions.net/cri...ialKiller.aspx

It helped me address questions over the killer's evolving disposal method. I was confused by Jane Doe 4, you see. I had assumed the killer began by decapitating and de-handing the bodies and leaving them in the forest, dumping the extremities on Ocean Parkway, before moving onto dumping the bodies entirely in Ocean Parkway because both Manorville victims had been found. This site argues that Jane Doe 4's murder is in fact a logical step in the killer's evolution, and I buy it.

I have to say, no identities and few clear facts make this a frustrating case. I do wonder what the police are doing holding so many cards close to their chests with this one.
Whew, Dark Passenger,
Reading this information kept me awake last night -- just knowing this person (and perhaps 299 others like him) are out and about in our country . . .

Had a thought after posting about the seasonal workers site. Because the killer paid the sex workers so much -- $900 and $1500 for instance -- the police believe it is someone with a good disposable income and therefore not likely to be the lowly seasonal workers.

I have no idea what rangers make, but guess that even the top rangers don't make a great deal of money. Perhaps enough for an occasional $1,000 splurge.

The authorities mention they believe the killer is someone in the upper echelon of society -- also pointed to perhaps by the killer having time and means to go to Times Square to make the harassing phone calls to the younger sister.

I've been aware of this case almost since the first bodies were found as I stumbled across an internet story and sort of checked occasionally for progress.

But I can't help wondering if something similar is just waiting to be found in other areas of the country.

creepy thought.

Could they be holding the cards so close because they think they know who the killer is but don't have enough to make an arrest?

curious
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-24-2012, 12:51 PM
DarkPassenger DarkPassenger is offline
Detective
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 355
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by curious View Post
Whew, Dark Passenger,
Reading this information kept me awake last night -- just knowing this person (and perhaps 299 others like him) are out and about in our country . . .

Had a thought after posting about the seasonal workers site. Because the killer paid the sex workers so much -- $900 and $1500 for instance -- the police believe it is someone with a good disposable income and therefore not likely to be the lowly seasonal workers.

I have no idea what rangers make, but guess that even the top rangers don't make a great deal of money. Perhaps enough for an occasional $1,000 splurge.

The authorities mention they believe the killer is someone in the upper echelon of society -- also pointed to perhaps by the killer having time and means to go to Times Square to make the harassing phone calls to the younger sister.

I've been aware of this case almost since the first bodies were found as I stumbled across an internet story and sort of checked occasionally for progress.

But I can't help wondering if something similar is just waiting to be found in other areas of the country.

creepy thought.

Could they be holding the cards so close because they think they know who the killer is but don't have enough to make an arrest?

curious
His apparent wealth does tie in with his age - 40s I'd say.

So why would his geographical activity be so seasonal if he is so well-off? It does seem telling that the fancier end of Long Island is his comfort zone. Maybe he has a house in the Hamptons and it is there that he is able to kill? I reckon if indeed he's too high-class to be a seasonal worker or ranger, he must therefore use the cover of solitary hobbies and pursuits while in the Hamptons for the Summer, to engage in his murders.

I didn't know about the payments to the hookers, so thanks for pointing it out. I need to a little more about it myself!

So what if this guy is still a seasonal worker on the Wildlife Reserves and suchlike, but that is actually more a hobby than a job because he's independently wealthy? Or what if his knowledge of computers and technology is because his primary - and very successful - source of income is an internet-based business?
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-24-2012, 01:23 PM
DarkPassenger DarkPassenger is offline
Detective
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 355
Default

Also, being so damned wealthy isn't exactly indicative of a stressor, which is usually what sets serial killers off on their little sprees.

Serial killers will murder in batches separated by elongated cooling-off-periods and usually they are set off by stressors in their lives. Since this guy is apparently wealthy and his crimes are fuelled by a misogynistic rage against women, how about this theory;

His crimes reflect the following behaviours;
  • Selection of easy targets - sex workers - but also victims he can justifiably kill in his own personal framework of self-justification. The phone calls he made to Melissa Bathelemy's sister reflect this gleeful desire to rape and kill "whores." His misogynistic rage is tied into his sexuality, so he's an anger-fuelled sexual sadist, a true "anger-excitation" sex killer.
  • His pick-up of the victims reflect his ability to talk to and even manipulate women. He isn't an introverted loner, he's confident, even arrogant, and socially adept, a true psychopath.
  • He disposes of the women not only by depersonalizing them (by making identification difficult in the Manorville cases), but by concealing them. His Manorville murders were found so he switched to hiding them in burlap sacks on Ocean Parkway where they won't likely be found. He doesn't care about his victims, he certainly doesn't care about them postmortem, and he doesn't care about publicity about a "serial killer on the loose." He's no missionary serial killer, not a publicity seeker; he's a control-freak sexual sadist. He likes to drive past where the bodies are and know they are there, and that's as far as it goes. Despite telling Amanda Fundeburg that he was going to "watch her rot," this expression tells us he's not necrophilic as he wouldn't have emphasised this aspect of the victim postmortem, the decomposition. He literally just disposes of them and gets his kicks while they're alive where he can humiliate, dominate and control them.
  • In conclusion, he's in his 40s, a highly socially-adept sexually-sadistic psychopath whose sexual kicks with the victim begin and end with torture and domination. This tells me that he has a primary sexual outlet which doubled as a facet of his need for control in his everyday life, part of his cover as functioning member of society. He's married. Or is he...?
  • What if the stressor for the more recent murders is a divorce? Such a person would be controlling, paranoid and violent in a marriage. I suspect he's had a few failed marriages and each one has kicked off a murder spree. What if his marriage broke up in around 2006 and he somehow managed to clean up in court - maybe some kind of humiliating emotional blackmail of his ex-wife forced her to bugger the case up - which, despite pocketing him a fair amount of cash, doubled as the stressor for the 2007 - 2010 murders?

Last edited by DarkPassenger : 10-24-2012 at 01:29 PM.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-24-2012, 01:46 PM
DarkPassenger DarkPassenger is offline
Detective
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 355
Default

http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/i...0411183305.jpg

A pretty good map but without annotations as to which bodies are which.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-24-2012, 03:18 PM
curious curious is offline
Chief Inspector
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 1,502
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkPassenger View Post
His apparent wealth does tie in with his age - 40s I'd say.

So why would his geographical activity be so seasonal if he is so well-off? It does seem telling that the fancier end of Long Island is his comfort zone. Maybe he has a house in the Hamptons and it is there that he is able to kill? I reckon if indeed he's too high-class to be a seasonal worker or ranger, he must therefore use the cover of solitary hobbies and pursuits while in the Hamptons for the Summer, to engage in his murders.

I didn't know about the payments to the hookers, so thanks for pointing it out. I need to a little more about it myself!

So what if this guy is still a seasonal worker on the Wildlife Reserves and suchlike, but that is actually more a hobby than a job because he's independently wealthy? Or what if his knowledge of computers and technology is because his primary - and very successful - source of income is an internet-based business?
Hi, Thanks for posting the Huffington Post link. I had not read that and notice that there is an expert who thinks there is a seasonal angle to the murders.

You ask: So why would his geographical activity be so seasonal if he is so well-off?

Maybe the wife and kids go to visit her family in the summers -- maybe overseas?

Maybe someone who summers in the Hamptons. Grew up there, but whose job takes him other places. I suspect there are other dumping grounds in his life that have yet to be discovered, and I would be really surprised if the Atlantic City murders are not his as well. and the Shannan Gilbert. Another thing Atlantic City has in common with Long Island is that it is a recreational destination (with the same sorts of parks and wildlife areas).

I think you are on to something with the tie in to the parks and wildlife areas, just not sure what yet. He could be a birdwatcher, or a visiting expert in a field that the park management regularly consults with him.

As I mentioned to you the fact that these types of natural areas hire seasonal workers might tie in. Or the areas might be selected by someone who travels in a camper (although Shannan Gilbert was taken by a driver indicating wealth to a [i] house[/I)].)

Can you imagine how excited these girls are to get a call from someone offering so much money plus a trip out to the Hamptons -- all expenses paid of course. Since one of the victims had $900 deposited in a bank account, surely there would be a way to trace that money. Plus, I don't remember how they knew about the offer of $1500 -- maybe the victim's pimp?

I wonder what might be found down along Chincoteague, Va., or the Outer Banks of North Carolina, or the Florida Keys.

However, I believe we know that:

A. He has a car or access to a vehicle (ranger could work here) -- this is because parts of the bodies from the early kills were scattered as much as 45 miles (or maybe 90 miles) apart and along deserted highways. It is my understanding that many of the seasonal workers don't take their cars with them, but use the public transportation inside the areas they work in.
However, it is possible some of the maintenance workers, etc. might have access to vehicles, don't you think? Would a killer risk using a "company vehicle"?

B. He has a private space or did -- this is because some of the bodies were dismembered. So he had to have somewhere to carry out that part of his work. Now that he is just dumping complete bodies, the private space is not as important as it once was.

C. I wonder if he is a small to average size man. All the last, identified victims are tiny 100 pounds and 5 feet tall or less. An earlier victim was 5'6" and 150 pounds, then he went to the tiny women -- there's probably a reason for that.

If the earlier victim was difficult for him and put up a good fight or nearly got away, he might have switched to smaller women who are easier to handle.

So, this might mean that he is attracted to larger women and if he is married or dates, those women will more likely fit the model of the earlier victim.

A divorce would work as a stressor. But wouldn't it need to be around 1996 or 93 (my memory isn't working today) instead of 2006 since that is about the age of the first body?


You ask: "So what if this guy is still a seasonal worker on the Wildlife Reserves and suchlike, but that is actually more a hobby than a job because he's independently wealthy? Or what if his knowledge of computers and technology is because his primary - and very successful - source of income is an internet-based business?"


That could work of course. Or he's there because of his interest in nature. With an Internet business, he could live and work anywhere and may keep returning to Long Island because it's home or he just plain likes it. Now that the bodies have been found, I really suspect he has moved on . . unless that would draw attention to him . . .

Wonder what the authorities are finding but keeping to themselves, don't you?

curious

Last edited by curious : 10-24-2012 at 03:23 PM.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-24-2012, 03:46 PM
curious curious is offline
Chief Inspector
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 1,502
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkPassenger View Post
His crimes reflect the following behaviours;
  • Selection of easy targets - sex workers - but also victims he can justifiably kill in his own personal framework of self-justification. The phone calls he made to Melissa Bathelemy's sister reflect this gleeful desire to rape and kill "whores." His misogynistic rage is tied into his sexuality, so he's an anger-fuelled sexual sadist, a true "anger-excitation" sex killer.
  • ok this makes sense to me.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DarkPassenger;243627[LIST
    ]
  • His pick-up of the victims reflect his ability to talk to and even manipulate women. He isn't an introverted loner, he's confident, even arrogant, and socially adept, a true psychopath.
  • I'm not sure about this. He's making a business arrangement on Craig's List -- perhaps by e-mail?


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DarkPassenger;243627[LIST
    ]
  • He disposes of the women not only by depersonalizing them (by making identification difficult in the Manorville cases), but by concealing them. His Manorville murders were found so he switched to hiding them in burlap sacks on Ocean Parkway where they won't likely be found. He doesn't care about his victims, he certainly doesn't care about them postmortem, and he doesn't care about publicity about a "serial killer on the loose." He's no missionary serial killer, not a publicity seeker; he's a control-freak sexual sadist. He likes to drive past where the bodies are and know they are there, and that's as far as it goes. Despite telling Amanda Fundeburg that he was going to "watch her rot," this expression tells us he's not necrophilic as he wouldn't have emphasised this aspect of the victim postmortem, the decomposition. He literally just disposes of them and gets his kicks while they're alive where he can humiliate, dominate and control them.
  • Makes sense, but I have no expertise or study in this area, so don't know for sure.


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DarkPassenger;243627[LIST
    ]
  • In conclusion, he's in his 40s, a highly socially-adept
  • I'm not sure about this part. He hires hookers on Craig's List. He apparently offers really poor young women what must seem lots of money. I think some of them would go meet the devil himself for that kind of money.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DarkPassenger View Post
    sexually-sadistic psychopath whose sexual kicks with the victim begin and end with torture and domination. This tells me that he has a primary sexual outlet which doubled as a facet of his need for control in his everyday life, part of his cover as functioning member of society. He's married. Or is he...?
  • What if the stressor for the more recent murders is a divorce? Such a person would be controlling, paranoid and violent in a marriage. I suspect he's had a few failed marriages
  • I think that is highly possible and perhaps got taken for a huge amount in one of the settlements. Although his victim taking what he considered HIS might be enough for him to want to kill.

    [/quote]and each one has kicked off a murder spree. What if his marriage broke up in around 2006 and he somehow managed to clean up in court - maybe some kind of humiliating emotional blackmail of his ex-wife forced her to bugger the case up - which, despite pocketing him a fair amount of cash, doubled as the stressor for the 2007 - 2010 murders?
[/quote]

Maybe. Or are bodies and years missing because he has been in different places?

Very interesting work there, Dark Passenger.

curious
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-24-2012, 04:00 PM
curious curious is offline
Chief Inspector
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 1,502
Default another thought just hit me

As I reread my post:
"I suspect there are other dumping grounds in his life that have yet to be discovered, and I would be really surprised if the Atlantic City murders are not his as well. and the Shannan Gilbert. Another thing Atlantic City has in common with Long Island is that it is a recreational destination (with the same sorts of parks and wildlife areas)."

Since you know what kind of wildlife refuges and parks surround the Long Island location and the Atlantic City location, why not look for tourist destinations that duplicate those natural areas as well? Then see if there are any missing women or found bodies.

I'm guessing he goes somewhere to bird watch, or fish or take pictures . . . whatever those areas offer. The natural areas are his cover for being in those locations. There probably should also be a fairly large populous city close enough for him to find appropriate hookers.

You know, the Seattle area-- Vancouver -- might be good to check. You have ocean and the city. There have been lots of hookers killed in that area, Green River killer and all. I don't know about recently.

I don't know if there is wild, overgrown area where bodies won't be found for years, but suspect there might be somewhere.

Anyway. I think they may have the tip of the iceberg here.

curious
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-24-2012, 05:32 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,866
Default

Hi DP and curious
Thanks for all the info-truly interesting and bizarre case.

Why do the authorities/and you think the killer is wealthy? Just because the women charge alot and/or he tells them he can pay them alot does not mean he actuallly has the money right? They are murdered so they never get the money and/or he takes it back. Am I missing something here?

Also, Re the seasonal worker: Teachers and school administrators/staff are off summers and many spend there free summers at the beach.

Also, i think it may be wise to follow the burlap bag clue. Its not a common type material/bag. I know nurseries (trees/plants/flower shops) and therefore also Landscaping businesses use burlap sacks.

Perhaps this guy works at a school in NY/NJ area in the non summer months and during the summer months has a place on LI where he does landscaping(also a "seasonal" job).
__________________
"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:07 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.