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  #11  
Old 05-10-2017, 06:09 PM
Lord Allen Lord Allen is offline
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Saw this today:

You know, it's been six months since the election, and I'm just having a hard time seeing a Trump-Russia connection...
Except for the Flynn thing. (http://www.newyorker.com/…/02/27/mic...-general-chaos)
And the Manafort thing.
(https://apnews.com/…/manaforts-plan-...nefit-putin-g…)
(https://www.nytimes.com/…/russia-int...communication…)
And the Tillerson thing.
(https://www.nytimes.com/…/russia-rex...-donald-trump…)
And the Sessions thing.
(https://www.washingtonpost.com/…/772...-11e6-99b4-9e…)
And the Kushner thing.
(https://www.nytimes.com/…/…/senate-j...er-russia.html)
And the Carter Page thing.
(https://www.yahoo.com/…/u-s-intel-of...obe-ties-betw…)
And the Roger Stone thing.
(https://www.nytimes.com/…/roger-ston...rump-russia.h…)
And the Wilbur Ross thing.
(http://www.motherjones.com/…/trump-c...ck-wilbur-ros…)
And the Felix Sater thing.
(https://www.ft.com/con…/549ddfaa-5fa...c-7b39cbb1138a)
And the Boris Ephsteyn thing.
(http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…/dona...dvisers-russi…)
And the Rosneft thing.
(http://foreignpolicy.com/…/donald-tr...a-scandal-is…/)
And the Gazprom thing.
(http://www.thedailybeast.com/…/the-k...il-company-ha…)
And the Sergey Gorkov thing.
(http://www.cnn.com/…/kushner-meeting...anker-tied-t…/)
And the Azerbaijan thing.
(http://www.newyorker.com/…/2…/03/13/...mps-worst-deal)
And the “I love Putin” thing.
(http://www.cnn.com/…/…/politics/trum...ssia-timeline/)
And the Donald Trump Jr. thing.
(http://www.eturbonews.com/…/executiv...ald-trump-jr-…)
And the Eric Trump thing.
(http://www.nydailynews.com/…/eric-tr...ns-fund-famil…)
And the Sergey Kislyak thing.
(http://www.nbcnews.com/…/meet-sergey...hadowy-appara…)
And the Russian Affiliated Interests thing.
(http://www.dailykos.com/…/-Evidence-...-Connections-…)
And the Russian Business Interests thing.
(http://www.dailykos.com/…/-Part-II-o...ion-of-Trump-…)
And the other private Russian interests.
(https://www.the-american-interest.co...rious-world-…/)
And the Emoluments Clause thing.
(https://www.washingtonpost.com/…/1d4...-11e7-a1b3-fa…)
And the Alex Shnaider thing.
(https://www.theimproper.com/…/donald...sian-connect…/)
And the hack of the DNC thing.
(https://www.washingtonpost.com/…/cf0...-11e6-8ff7-7b…)
And the Guccifer 2.0 thing.
(https://motherboard.vice.com/…/gucci...likely-a-russ…)
And the Mike Pence thing.
(http://www.mediaite.com/…/maddow-it-...ble-that-mik…/)
And the numerous suspicious dead Russian's thing.
(https://www.usatoday.com/…/dozens-ru...hs…/100480734/)
And the public request to Russia to hack Hillary’s email thing.
(http://www.politico.com/…/trump-puti...ionship-226282)
And the Trump selling a house for $100 million at the bottom of the housing bust to the Russian fertilizer king thing.
(http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html…)
And the Russian fertilizer king’s plane showing up in Concord, NC and Las Vegas during Trump campaign thing.
(http://www.mcclatchydc.com/…/white-h...136939868.html)
And the Russian fertilizer king's yacht anchored next to Robert Mercer's thing.
(http://www.mypalmbeachpost.com/…/ya…...qvEYrQ0hm9zlN/)
And the McConnell, Ryan, Nunes, Burr covering up Trump's Russian collusion in September 2016 thing.
(https://www.washingtonpost.com/…/31d...-11e6-94ac-3d…)
And the Nunes personal investments in the Russian winery thing.
(http://www.cnn.com/…/devin-nunes-whi...on…/index.html)
(http://www.dailykos.com/…/-BOMBSHELL...es-Entire-Net…)
And the Cyprus bank thing.
(http://www.mcclatchydc.com/…/politic...133217874.html)
And the Trump not releasing his tax returns thing.
(http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…/trum...ax-returns_us…)
And the GOP rejection of a bill to require Trump to show his taxes thing.
(https://www.gpo.gov/…/pkg/CRPT-115hr...-115hrpt73.pdf)
And the election hacking thing.
(https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/ICA_2017_01.pdf)
And the GOP platform change to the Ukraine thing.
(https://www.washingtonpost.com/…/98a...-11e6-a7d8-13…)
And the Steele Dossier thing.
(https://assets.documentcloud.org/…/T...ligence-Alleg…)
And the "Leninist" Bannon thing.
(http://www.newsweek.com/steve-bannon...ump-jared-kus…)
And the Sally Yates can’t testify thing.
(https://www.washingtonpost.com/…/82b...-11e7-9e4f-09…)
And the IC investigative reports thing.
(http://www.latimes.com/…/la-pol-upda...hing-presiden…)
And the Trump calling the Russian connection “fake news” thing.
(http://www.latimes.com/…/la-pol-upda...hing-presiden…)
And the Spicer’s Russian Dressing “nothing’s wrong” thing.
(http://twitchy.com/…/nothing-better-...fact-checks-…/)
And the Chaffetz not willing to start an investigation thing.
(http://thehill.com/…/319410-gop-chai...ight-wont-inv…)
And the Chaffetz suddenly deciding to go back to private life in the middle of an investigation thing.
(https://www.theatlantic.com/…/jason-...eelec…/523575/)
And the Lead DOJ Investigator Mary McCord SUDDENLY deciding to resign thing.
(http://www.npr.org/…/leader-of-justi...ent-national-…)
And the White House going into full-on cover-up mode, refusing to turn over the documents related to the hiring and subsequent firing of Flynn thing.
(http://www.politicususa.com/…/refusa...nn-documents-…)
And the Chaffetz and White House blaming the poor vetting of Flynn on Obama thing.
(http://www.rawstory.com/…/not-trumps...se-oversight…/)
And the Poland and British intelligence gave information regarding the hacking back in 2015 to Paul Ryan and he didn't do anything thing.
(http://thehill.com/…/328718-uk-spies...-trump-russia…)
And the M16 agent following the money thing.
(http://www.independent.co.uk/…/richa...e-mi6-trump-r…)
And the Obama personally warning Trump about Flynn's involvement but hiring him anyway thing.
(http://www.cnn.com/…/05/08/polit…/ob...michael-flynn/)
And the Corey Lewendowski thing.
(http://www.politico.com/…/corey-lewa...tgo-deal-2379…)
And the Preet Bharara firing thing.
(https://www.palmerreport.com/…/preet...ave-all…/2538/)
And the Betsy Devos' Brother thing.
(https://www.washingtonpost.com/…/959...-11e7-ada0-14…)
And the Sebastian Gorka thing.
(https://www.theatlantic.com/…/sebast...white…/519843/)
And the Greg Gianforte from Montana thing.
(http://www.businessinsider.com/monta...greg-gianfort…)
And the Pence actually was warned about Flynn before he was hired thing.
(https://democrats-oversight.house.go...gs-requests-d…)
And the Pence and Manafort connection thing.
(https://www.nytimes.com/…/mike-pence...ump-vice-pres…)
And the 10 Allies coming forward with audio where Trump was picked up in incidental wire tapping thing.
(https://www.theguardian.com/…/britis...rst-to-spot-t…)
And the Carter Page defying the Senate's order to hand over his Russian contact list.
(http://www.independent.co.uk/…/donal...rter-page-rus…)
And the trump wants to VETO Sally Yates' testimony thing....
(https://www.bostonglobe.com/…/gJkj3W...xS…/story.html)
Nope, nothing happening between Trump and Russia. Nothing at all. Move along. Nothing to see here.
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  #12  
Old 05-10-2017, 11:33 PM
jason_c jason_c is offline
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Lord Allen, most of those pages are not showing up for me.

Again, most of those links (the way they are described) seem to deal with piffle. It's not a Trump/Russia connection that needs to be shown, but a co-ordination between Russian meddling in the election and Trump's campaign team.
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  #13  
Old 05-11-2017, 12:20 AM
Svensson Svensson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_c View Post
Thank you for your detailed response. I note much of the response is still conjecture. I have yet to see any evidence of collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russians, but I suppose it can be argued a lot evidence is yet to come out. Much of the rest of your post is concerned with criticizing Trump's political judgement. I suggest Trump's political judgement is far superior to yours or mine.

Trump should have fired Comey in January? Fine. However, Trump claims he only sacked Comey on the request of the DOJ(and he has a letter to prove it). Trump is either lying, or he is acting as any President would after such a request. Until proven otherwise im going to assume the latter is true particularly as he has a written DOJ document to back him.

Finally, I see no reason to believe that firing Comey would stop any investigation of Trump/Russia. The FBI is a multi-headed beast. It has not been dictatorial since J Edgar Hoover. Watergate was uncovered by a disgruntled FBI deputy director. I believe that if Trump fired Comey purely to forestall any Russia investigation then it will backfire on Trump. We'll just have to wait and see how this plays out.
Yes, much (almost all of it) of it is conjecture as hard facts are thin on the ground and a lot of connecting the dots is going on. On the other hand, I don't think that this is too much removed from reality except for the fact here that we are dealing with the presidency of the US. If this was an industrial investigation or one into the dealings of a bank/financier, where we have seen such shennanigans many times before, then there would be a higher likelihood that this eventually turns out to be correct. We are in unchartered waters when it comes to high politics. To sum it up, I just think there are too many co-incidents here to be truly co-incidental. We have already seen many many times that the president is ok with lying to advance his cause. He has done so already WRT the Russia investigation as early as Janaury when he immediately tweeted that "the FBI confirmed that the Russian hacking did not influence the outcome of the election" (verbatim) when the dossier clearly stated "we did not come to a conclusion on this" (verbatim) and this was again confirmed by Clapper under oath at the time.

Not only does he lye, he also continues to interfere with the investigation, one that he continually says is a "hoax" and his WH deputy speaker continually says "nothing to see here". If there is nothing to see here, why does he continue to interfere?

Apart from conjecture, I look at how this story is developing and parallels can be seen with other similar scandals in the past. The systematic discreditation of the press who are reporting on it, the attempts to cover-up, the attempts to stop people from testifying, the sacking of people who play important roles in the story, etc.

Yes, no proof in the public domain but that doesn't mean it's not there. I just don;t know what the processes are for an ongoing investigation to go public with their findings.

Last edited by Svensson : 05-11-2017 at 12:26 AM.
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  #14  
Old 05-11-2017, 03:53 AM
Svensson Svensson is offline
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Originally Posted by jason_c View Post

Finally, I see no reason to believe that firing Comey would stop any investigation of Trump/Russia. The FBI is a multi-headed beast. It has not been dictatorial since J Edgar Hoover. Watergate was uncovered by a disgruntled FBI deputy director. I believe that if Trump fired Comey purely to forestall any Russia investigation then it will backfire on Trump. We'll just have to wait and see how this plays out.
Correct. We know that. But Trump, being an utter and total imbecile, will most certainly think that he can rid himself of the issue by just firing Comey (and then install one of his stooges to the vacant post). He is used to running a family business where everyone is his employee and everyone bows to his commands. It doesn't work like that in politics and he doesn't get away with firing the guy who is investigating him.
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  #15  
Old 05-11-2017, 04:38 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_c View Post
Lord Allen, most of those pages are not showing up for me.

Again, most of those links (the way they are described) seem to deal with piffle. It's not a Trump/Russia connection that needs to be shown, but a co-ordination between Russian meddling in the election and Trump's campaign team.
Thank you Jason
That's exactly the issue.
Most people are so blinded by partisan politics they easily lose sight of reality.

What ? is the leaders of one super power supposed to have absolutely no communication or dealings with another? Good grief.
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but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

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  #16  
Old 05-11-2017, 08:34 AM
Lord Allen Lord Allen is offline
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I find it ironic that a website filled with detectives poring over the tiniest piece of evidence have a dismissive attitude about something that will probably affect their very lives.

Breitbart and Fox news create a false pardigm of distrust regarding mainstream (lamestream) media, convincing the fearful that only they can be trusted to bring you the truth, and as such we now have what is probably the most corrupt (or will be) administration in American history, again led by an inveterate liar who tells you that only he stands between you and whatever hate you happen to have at that moment.

Connect the dots on this man. Research. There is waaaay too much smoke, to much deflection, obfuscation, and straight up falsehoods for this administration to not be hiding something they don't want us to know. There are valid reasons that members of the House and Senate (and not strictly along partisan lines) believe we are in the midst of a constitutional crisis. Blow it off if you want, but there is something very rotten in Denmark.
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  #17  
Old 05-11-2017, 11:44 AM
Pcdunn Pcdunn is offline
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Default Yes, but then today Trump said...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_c View Post
Trump should have fired Comey in January? Fine. However, Trump claims he only sacked Comey on the request of the DOJ(and he has a letter to prove it). Trump is either lying, or he is acting as any President would after such a request. Until proven otherwise im going to assume the latter is true particularly as he has a written DOJ document to back him.
...that he had intended to fire Comey BEFORE he got the request from the Department of Justice.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...t-pence-238274

Also, FBI groups disagree with the White House summation that Comey was doing a bad job, and lacked the confidence of the agents he over-saw.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...i-trump-238247

Look, I think the legal stuff shows the President could fire anyone at any time, and it's true Comey overstepped his duties by deciding the Clinton e-mail thing was nothing (that's up to the Department of Justice to do)-- but I think the timing of this dismissal, the way it was carried out while Comey was out of town, and the scramble by WH staffers to talk about it in a logical fashion are all troubling.

Now the WH is upset that pictures of Trump smiling and shaking hands with Russian big-wigs have turned up on social media in Russia, when American press photographers were not allowed in the Oval Office.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/11/politi...rump-russians/

Fun times over here...
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Von Konigswald: Jack the Ripper plays shuffleboard. -- Happy Birthday, Wanda June by Kurt Vonnegut, c.1970.
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  #18  
Old 05-11-2017, 11:55 AM
Pcdunn Pcdunn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Allen View Post
I find it ironic that a website filled with detectives poring over the tiniest piece of evidence have a dismissive attitude about something that will probably affect their very lives.

Breitbart and Fox news create a false pardigm of distrust regarding mainstream (lamestream) media, convincing the fearful that only they can be trusted to bring you the truth, and as such we now have what is probably the most corrupt (or will be) administration in American history, again led by an inveterate liar who tells you that only he stands between you and whatever hate you happen to have at that moment.

Connect the dots on this man. Research. There is waaaay too much smoke, to much deflection, obfuscation, and straight up falsehoods for this administration to not be hiding something they don't want us to know. There are valid reasons that members of the House and Senate (and not strictly along partisan lines) believe we are in the midst of a constitutional crisis. Blow it off if you want, but there is something very rotten in Denmark.
Hello, Lord Allen-- as a librarian I agree with you about the problems with getting people to look at an issue objectively, especially when they are going to look for (and find!) internet articles which support their own personal worldview. Whose news is the "fake news"?, we might ask.

Yes, definitely look at a variety of sources and consider each story carefully.

Tip: Some of your links in your previous post may not have worked because they were from newspaper and journal sites that require a subscription to read articles there.
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  #19  
Old 05-11-2017, 12:35 PM
jason_c jason_c is offline
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...that he had intended to fire Comey BEFORE he got the request from the Department of Justice.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...t-pence-238274

Also, FBI groups disagree with the White House summation that Comey was doing a bad job, and lacked the confidence of the agents he over-saw.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...i-trump-238247

Look, I think the legal stuff shows the President could fire anyone at any time, and it's true Comey overstepped his duties by deciding the Clinton e-mail thing was nothing (that's up to the Department of Justice to do)-- but I think the timing of this dismissal, the way it was carried out while Comey was out of town, and the scramble by WH staffers to talk about it in a logical fashion are all troubling.

Now the WH is upset that pictures of Trump smiling and shaking hands with Russian big-wigs have turned up on social media in Russia, when American press photographers were not allowed in the Oval Office.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/11/politi...rump-russians/

Fun times over here...

Trump intended to fire Comey before he recieved the DOJ request? This may or may not be true(in fact I was earlier going to suggest Trump's DOJ excuse was just that - an excuse). Be that as it may, the DOJ request does give him political cover to fire Comey. Political cover to do something of this sort is what any competent politician requires.

With regards to Comey's popularity or unpopularity among FBI agents. Sorry, but I can find previous articles claiming Comey WAS unpopular among rank and file FBI agents. Your link is no more trustworthy than many previous links contradicting yours. In reality none of us know how popular Comey was among agents. Right now we are in the middle of a pissing contest between Trump, Democrats, Republicans and the FBI. Personally, I would not trust any of them to be telling me the entire truth. They are all slanting the truth to their own agenda.

I disagree with you about the timing being the troubling issue. I can as good as guarantee had Trump fired Comey with immediate affect as soon as he took office in January he would have been accused of recklessness; of being hot headed. Criticizing the timing is usually the easy way out for political opponents.

As for the photos in the White House with Russian officials. No White House source has been named. I do find it fairly unlikely(though I could be wrong) that the White House would let Russian media in to take photos and not expect those photos to be published. If it all sounds too unlikely then there is a good chance the story is just that, unlikely.
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  #20  
Old 05-11-2017, 12:54 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_c View Post
Trump intended to fire Comey before he recieved the DOJ request? This may or may not be true(in fact I was earlier going to suggest Trump's DOJ excuse was just that - an excuse). Be that as it may, the DOJ request does give him political cover to fire Comey. Political cover to do something of this sort is what any competent politician requires.

With regards to Comey's popularity or unpopularity among FBI agents. Sorry, but I can find previous articles claiming Comey WAS unpopular among rank and file FBI agents. Your link is no more trustworthy than many previous links contradicting yours. In reality none of us know how popular Comey was among agents. Right now we are in the middle of a pissing contest between Trump, Democrats, Republicans and the FBI. Personally, I would not trust any of them to be telling me the entire truth. They are all slanting the truth to their own agenda.

I disagree with you about the timing being the troubling issue. I can as good as guarantee had Trump fired Comey with immediate affect as soon as he took office in January he would have been accused of recklessness; of being hot headed. Criticizing the timing is usually the easy way out for political opponents.

As for the photos in the White House with Russian officials. No White House source has been named. I do find it fairly unlikely(though I could be wrong) that the White House would let Russian media in to take photos and not expect those photos to be published. If it all sounds too unlikely then there is a good chance the story is just that, unlikely.
Hi Jason
good post. It dosnt matter when or how Trump fired him-he would be criticized either way.

as for what people thought of Comey inside the FBI? well I can answer that from first hand experience.

I have been in Intel/DOD for over 15 years and have worked indirectly on FBI contracts. I know many people who are lifetime FBI, at all levels, and most of them think it was time for Comey to go, for the reasons I stated in my first post.

Ive been saying for along time, that our Intel/federal law enforcement agencies need a shake up in general. and I'm not the only one working in this area that does.
__________________
"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
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