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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Scene of the Crimes

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  #81  
Old 04-27-2017, 12:47 AM
Elamarna Elamarna is offline
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Quote:
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Dear Steve,

as soon as anyone starts discussing the Nichols murder and time it becomes Minutiae in Buck´s Row.

This is what Fisherman has to do all the time. And I think he is hiding behind it, since it enables him to discuss Lechmere forever without giving any evidence for a connection between Lechmere and the other murders.

The most significant word adherent to this type of practise is "IF".

As you can see, you are now part of this game and one of those who are depending on this word.

I am sorry but I do think that the big problem with reliability when trying to determine minutes - and even seconds sometime - with the help of sparse and inexact sources from the past is hopeless.

I prefer to follow the witness statements and the tendencies if there are any.

The first source with Paul for example has a strong tendency.

Best wishes, Pierre

Yes Pierre I agree. In the end we are left with the sources and the time charts incoperate those source statements.

However if we do not have a framework to refer the sources to we move nowhere in some arguments. Those being relative times of arrival at the scene by various police officers.
This of course is the whole basis for the blood argument. By setting out the possible timings for those incidents we allow a fuller discussion on the issue at a later point.

Unfortunately the form of the forum does not allow me to lay out the work in one go. The details would get lost in the ensuing debate. As I said on another thread yesterday if this were a book the first section would be the last, an appendix.

The other reason for posting the tables first was to see if there were any major disagreements over distances and possible walking speeds.

Let me assure you the remainder of the work is source based.



Steve
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  #82  
Old 04-27-2017, 04:12 AM
Pierre Pierre is offline
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Originally Posted by Elamarna View Post
Yes Pierre I agree. In the end we are left with the sources and the time charts incoperate those source statements.

However if we do not have a framework to refer the sources to we move nowhere in some arguments. Those being relative times of arrival at the scene by various police officers.
This of course is the whole basis for the blood argument. By setting out the possible timings for those incidents we allow a fuller discussion on the issue at a later point.

Unfortunately the form of the forum does not allow me to lay out the work in one go. The details would get lost in the ensuing debate. As I said on another thread yesterday if this were a book the first section would be the last, an appendix.

The other reason for posting the tables first was to see if there were any major disagreements over distances and possible walking speeds.

Let me assure you the remainder of the work is source based.

Steve
Good points. It will be interesting to see how you interpret the sources.

Cheer, Pierre
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  #83  
Old 05-07-2017, 06:45 AM
Pierre Pierre is offline
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[quote=Elamarna;413148]

Quote:
The other reason for posting the tables first was to see if there were any major disagreements over distances and possible walking speeds.

Hi Steve,

For those who did not follow your thinking and for those who would appreciate an answer to this question:

Were there any major disagreements over distances and/or possible walking speed?

Cheers, Pierre
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  #84  
Old 05-07-2017, 11:53 AM
Elamarna Elamarna is offline
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[quote=Pierre;413866]
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Originally Posted by Elamarna View Post




Hi Steve,

For those who did not follow your thinking and for those who would appreciate an answer to this question:

Were there any major disagreements over distances and/or possible walking speed?

Cheers, Pierre
So far none on the distances at all. However I stated at the start they were not absolutes and could be a few feet out, however that would only make a difference of a few seconds no matter what speed walked.

There as been some discussion over the speeds I have suggested as preferred, but that was expected and was the reason for giving a selection in each table.
The main point raised as been I may have suggested that Thain would not have run to Llewellyn but would have used a faster than normal walking speed, again various options are in the tables.
Conversely it has also been suggested that maybe I have Mizen coming back too fast with the ambulance, however I do include options again and the truth is that even the faster time I suggest in the commentary takes along time, slower times make a longer gap before until he arrives back in Bucks Row.

In addition it has been suggested that the police may have walked slower than I suggest in the commentary, again other times are quoted and slower time in the case of Neil for instance just makes him arrive on scene that much later.

The point of the exercise was to see what was possible, could for instance Neil have arrived less than two minutes after Paul and Lechmere left the scene; not what was the latest time he could have arrived.


The rest of the project is going well, I am writing up part two at present, that is witness and press statements and reports. A source analysis.

The final conclusions will be some time after that, maybe 2 months off.


Steve
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  #85  
Old 05-07-2017, 12:42 PM
Pierre Pierre is offline
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[quote=Elamarna;413884]
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Originally Posted by Pierre View Post

So far none on the distances at all. However I stated at the start they were not absolutes and could be a few feet out, however that would only make a difference of a few seconds no matter what speed walked.

There as been some discussion over the speeds I have suggested as preferred, but that was expected and was the reason for giving a selection in each table.
The main point raised as been I may have suggested that Thain would not have run to Llewellyn but would have used a faster than normal walking speed, again various options are in the tables.
Conversely it has also been suggested that maybe I have Mizen coming back too fast with the ambulance, however I do include options again and the truth is that even the faster time I suggest in the commentary takes along time, slower times make a longer gap before until he arrives back in Bucks Row.

In addition it has been suggested that the police may have walked slower than I suggest in the commentary, again other times are quoted and slower time in the case of Neil for instance just makes him arrive on scene that much later.

The point of the exercise was to see what was possible, could for instance Neil have arrived less than two minutes after Paul and Lechmere left the scene; not what was the latest time he could have arrived.


The rest of the project is going well, I am writing up part two at present, that is witness and press statements and reports. A source analysis.

The final conclusions will be some time after that, maybe 2 months off.

Steve
Thanks for the summing up, Steve. And good luck with your part two now.

Best wishes, Pierre
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  #86  
Old 05-08-2017, 08:52 AM
Elamarna Elamarna is offline
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just been pointed out to me a mistake in Bucks Row Project part 1 post 6

its only a typo, the final column heading reads 4mph/88ypm.

should of course read 4mph/117ypm

the calculation are correct.

sorry for that, but this was why i posted these to pick up the mistakes.

Steve
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  #87  
Old 07-29-2017, 11:29 AM
Elamarna Elamarna is offline
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Just an update.

Part two of The Bucks Rowpproject will be posted in the Witnesses section as that is what it is about.

The thread will probably be up directly after the London Conference, which is next weekend.


Steve
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  #88  
Old 07-29-2017, 11:43 AM
Pierre Pierre is offline
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Originally Posted by Elamarna View Post
Just an update.

Part two of The Bucks Rowpproject will be posted in the Witnesses section as that is what it is about.

The thread will probably be up directly after the London Conference, which is next weekend.

Steve
Good work, Steve.

Pierre
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  #89  
Old 08-02-2017, 02:40 AM
Elamarna Elamarna is offline
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Default Another correction

Hi all

Just seen a typo in post #14, the very first table.

Column 6 headed 5mph/146yds. Row 2
This reads 3min 50sec, it should read 5min 50sec.

Sorry I did not pick up on it before.


Steve
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  #90  
Old 08-04-2017, 09:38 AM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elamarna View Post
Just an update.

Part two of The Bucks Rowpproject will be posted in the Witnesses section as that is what it is about.

The thread will probably be up directly after the London Conference, which is next weekend.


Steve
Look forward to reading it Steve.

Hope you haven't used any long words though

Regards

Herlock
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