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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Hyams, Hyam

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  #81  
Old 10-30-2015, 02:25 PM
Brenda Brenda is offline
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I feel that the man pictured on our left may very well be deceased.
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  #82  
Old 10-30-2015, 02:55 PM
Rosella Rosella is offline
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^ I know what you mean, Brenda, as I have seen those post mortem photographs where relatives support a dead family member.

However, there are also photos around that were taken of prisoners (for ID purposes) and sometimes these men and women screwed up their faces and wriggled (for obvious reasons) so a decent portrait of them could not be taken. Police and warders (several of them sometimes) would hold their heads and bodies in place so the photographer could do his job.

It could well have been the case also in mental institutions when a photo had to be taken and a patient wouldn't 'cooperate' and sit up straight for whatever reason, and so had to be held in place.
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  #83  
Old 10-30-2015, 04:10 PM
Phil Carter Phil Carter is offline
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Hello Rob,

Thanks for reposting the recently jtrf posted photo. I do not think it the same person, personally.

However, I went back and read through this entire thread carefully. Perhaps it is only me, but it must have occurred to others here that from the snippets of information given, timing and condition of this poor fellow, he actually seems a far far better person to have in mind when comparing prices on the infamous Swanson marginalia. In fact, that being the case, the mention of the police in the document you posted on the thread becomes very interesting indeed.
Ignoring the fact that "Kosminski" was the suspect. .or the name of the suspect in the marginalia, much else is quite similar to this fellow's antecedent past.
Possible?




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  #84  
Old 10-30-2015, 08:38 PM
Scott Nelson Scott Nelson is offline
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Well, yes Phil. I've always thought so.
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  #85  
Old 10-31-2015, 10:21 AM
Phil Carter Phil Carter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Nelson View Post
Well, yes Phil. I've always thought so.
Hello Scott,

In which case, given that the police were apparently very aware of both Kosminsky and Hyams, the most obvious question is...why on earth would Swanson write the name of the wrong person in the marginalia in the first place?

I wonder what would have been the result if the discovery of the marginalia in the early 1980's involved "Hyams was the suspect"?

It would rather have put the name Kosminski out in the pasture I would think.

Now, if, as it seems, Hyams fits the bill far better than Kosminski does re the marginalia..Some people have an awful lot if back peddling to do IMHO. Not least, those proponents of the insistence that everything is hunky dory with the marginalia itself. For as a side note, the antecedents of Hyams were unknown at the time... All eyes on Swanson methinks.



Phil
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  #86  
Old 10-31-2015, 12:18 PM
tji tji is offline
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Am I missing something here?

As far as I am aware we know Hyams is an unlikely suspect, we know the Hyam Hyams who was put forward as suspect is not in fact the Hyam Hyams who went into the asylum and thanks Debs and Rob research/findings weakened the case more or less completely against him as a suspect.
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  #87  
Old 10-31-2015, 12:42 PM
Scott Nelson Scott Nelson is offline
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Phil,

Hyams makes an interesting modern suspect, but he's not Anderson's (and Swanson's) Polish Jew suspect. Hyams could have been the Ripper without any connections to modern theorizing.

Swanson could have written in his marginalia notes, "Abrahams was the suspect - DSS", or "Cohen was the suspect - DSS".

Or as I suspect, "Kosminski" was the non-anglicised name of Cohen. Better to use Kosminski to identify the fact that he was a Polish Jew immigrant.
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  #88  
Old 10-31-2015, 12:50 PM
Scott Nelson Scott Nelson is offline
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Hi Tracy,

Debs discovered that the Hyam Hyams who grew up on Mitre street was different from the one who went to the asylum. Also that the asylum-bound Hyams was not the "terror of the city police", but rather terrified of the police (apologies , trying to quote from memory).

This doesn't mean that the Colney Hatch Hyams couldn't have been the Ripper.
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  #89  
Old 10-31-2015, 03:48 PM
tji tji is offline
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Hi Scott

Quote:
Debs discovered that the Hyam Hyams who grew up on Mitre street was different from the one who went to the asylum.
Sightly awkward here - that was actually me

Quote:
Also that the asylum-bound Hyams was not the "terror of the city police", but rather terrified of the police (apologies , trying to quote from memory).
Yup this was all Debs (and Rob C I believe. )

Quote:
This doesn't mean that the Colney Hatch Hyams couldn't have been the Ripper.
Valid point, but the info that Debs found showed that he wasn't actually as menacing and vicious as led to believe if I remember correctly.
Take away the fact that he didn't live in Mitre Street, wasn't 'the terror of the Police,' didn't die for many years after the killings etc, doesn't make for a strong suspect. Admittedly still stronger than some suspects put forward......
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