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  #1  
Old 12-19-2017, 01:45 PM
OctavBotnar OctavBotnar is offline
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Default A few questions

Given the mutilations -i assume there would have been a wretched smell ? If we assume this then , then ordinarily someone not used to butchery would probably vomit at the smell ? So -does this mean JTR did indeed have some previous butchering skills ?

Tumblety -his collections of Uterus makes for a remarkable coincidence.However,it is said JTR was familiar with the area and make good his escape thru the warren of streets - but would Tumblety a temporary resident be familiar with those roads ?

Media always portrays the roads at time of attack as empty - but how busy where they ? where there loads of people around ?

I'm not stating anything as fact - but just want some opinions from those with more insight
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listen the wind is calling
to the dangerzone beyond the light
and suddenly we are falling
But there ain't no stopping us now
I don't know if I'll be back tonight
It's just a machine inside of my head
and now all the wheels are turning
I'll think of the words we never said
and deep in my heart it's burning
But there is no stopping it now
we're gonna make it somehow
you wait tonight
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Into the fire we will run
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Old 12-19-2017, 01:55 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OctavBotnar View Post
Given the mutilations -i assume there would have been a wretched smell ? If we assume this then , then ordinarily someone not used to butchery would probably vomit at the smell ? So -does this mean JTR did indeed have some previous butchering skills ?

Tumblety -his collections of Uterus makes for a remarkable coincidence.However,it is said JTR was familiar with the area and make good his escape thru the warren of streets - but would Tumblety a temporary resident be familiar with those roads ?

Media always portrays the roads at time of attack as empty - but how busy where they ? where there loads of people around ?

I'm not stating anything as fact - but just want some opinions from those with more insight
Hi Oct
welcome
Quote:
Given the mutilations -i assume there would have been a wretched smell ? If we assume this then , then ordinarily someone not used to butchery would probably vomit at the smell ? So -does this mean JTR did indeed have some previous butchering skills ?
I'm not sure about the smell-but I'm sure it wasn't pleasant. But what about the sight and feel? That would be enough too.so yes I think he was accustomed to some sort of cutting up of humans or animals before he started his killing.

Quote:
Tumblety -his collections of Uterus makes for a remarkable coincidence.However,it is said JTR was familiar with the area and make good his escape thru the warren of streets - but would Tumblety a temporary resident be familiar with those roads ?
probably not. however, I do know that one can find there way around pretty complicated new areas, given a few weeks if they travel/explore them on a daily basis.

Quote:
Media always portrays the roads at time of attack as empty - but how busy where they ? where there loads of people around ?
No. one or two here or there. Have you ever wandered around a large city in the middle of the night? I have and its pretty dead.
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quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

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  #3  
Old 12-19-2017, 02:20 PM
OctavBotnar OctavBotnar is offline
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Hi Abby ,thanks

Regarding the streets at night-i asked because one claim put Charles Cross at the scene of all the crimes.However, even if that was true , it would need to established how many people were travelling to work at the same time as him.

Also , i assume the streets were not empty once the Vigilance Committee set up and Police increased number of patrols? I get impression from documentaries that the "authorities flooded the area"
__________________
We're standing alone inside the night
listen the wind is calling
to the dangerzone beyond the light
and suddenly we are falling
But there ain't no stopping us now
I don't know if I'll be back tonight
It's just a machine inside of my head
and now all the wheels are turning
I'll think of the words we never said
and deep in my heart it's burning
But there is no stopping it now
we're gonna make it somehow
you wait tonight
and we're waiting for the light
Into the fire we will run
into the sound of distant drums
when you're walking alone in a dream
on a highway to nowhere
nowhere tonight
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  #4  
Old 12-19-2017, 04:37 PM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
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Hi Oct And Abby,

As the bodies, with the exception of Kelly, were all discovered not long after death I’m unsure how much smell there would have been. Maybe some but Whitechapel would have plenty of ‘interesting’ smells anyway so perhaps the locals were less sensitive than we would be today?

As far as Cross walking to work we only know of one other going to work at that particular time though there may have been others earlier and more later. As Abby said, whilst the streets might not have been totally deserted there wouldn’t have been many people around at say 3 am. Prostitutes, people looking for somewhere to sleep, police and serial killers of course
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  #5  
Old 12-19-2017, 09:59 PM
Ginger Ginger is offline
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Whitechapel, by modern standards, was appallingly filthy. Horses relieved themselves in the streets, and while flush toilets were in use in the better-off parts of the city, most people in the East End still used outhouses over pits. The situation was immeasurably improved when measured against the dreadful summer of 1857 (the Great Stink), but I rather imagine that Victorian city-dwellers in 1888 routinely ignored smells that today would result in a visit from the health department.
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  #6  
Old 12-20-2017, 12:33 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is online now
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Excellent point, Ginger, and no doubt you're correct.
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  #7  
Old 12-20-2017, 06:30 AM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OctavBotnar View Post
Given the mutilations -i assume there would have been a wretched smell ? If we assume this then , then ordinarily someone not used to butchery would probably vomit at the smell ? So -does this mean JTR did indeed have some previous butchering skills ?
Hi OB.

As has been pointed out by Ginger, our expectation of fresh air is a result of our times. In the late 19th century, and before, but especially in the east end of London the whole place had to stink everywhere.
Not only was there precious little by way of modern sanitary conditions, there was also industry like the tannery's, which smell horrendous. Slaughter-houses, horse-dung everywhere, and the need to throw waste in the streets as private toilets where they existed didn't always function.

Quote:
Tumblety -his collections of Uterus makes for a remarkable coincidence.However,it is said JTR was familiar with the area and make good his escape thru the warren of streets - but would Tumblety a temporary resident be familiar with those roads ?
Media always portrays the roads at time of attack as empty - but how busy where they ? where there loads of people around ?
This suggested ability of the killer to disappear through the warren of backstreets may have been overplayed. He only needed to make it to the end of the street to be safe. There were people in the streets, everywhere, coming and going, at least according to contemporary reports. So, this killer merely needed to blend in, not disappear.

Take for instance Whitechapel High St., all through the night this was a busy highway full of over night stalls selling coffee and hot foods of various sorts.
Rather than this killer vanish into the night where there was nobody, it would have been far easier for him to head towards the busy area's - to hide in plain sight, in other words. Disappear into the crowds, not into the shadows.
This killer didn't need to be covered in blood, in fact some professional opinions of the time say this. What we may read in the press about the killer escaping soaked in blood is just the press stirring up fear & emotion in the public eye.
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Old 12-20-2017, 05:01 PM
Ginger Ginger is offline
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https://www.npr.org/2015/03/12/39233...infamous-filth

A short, but informative, article about the lack of cleanliness of Victorian London. There's a link to a book excerpt about dustmen, as well.
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Old 12-20-2017, 09:37 PM
Varqm Varqm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginger View Post
https://www.npr.org/2015/03/12/39233...infamous-filth

A short, but informative, article about the lack of cleanliness of Victorian London. There's a link to a book excerpt about dustmen, as well.
Interesting.
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