The could be knife Thomas Coram found on October the 1st 1888

[The Good Michael]

Wolf,

Of course you are correct about it not being Coram's knife. I am hanging around to see what Niko might know about Kosminski's cousin.

Cheers,

Mike

[niko]

repl to Arhaic

Hi Niko.

Welcome to Casebook, and thanks for posting the photo.

That certainly is a large knife; the wide blade is almost of the meat-cleaver type.

Though we don't know what kind of blade the Ripper used, a double-edged Liston-type surgical knife is a good possibility. They have extremely sharp straight blades that often taper at the end.

There's probably no way after all these years to tie your knife to any particular individual, let alone to Jack the Ripper,
but there's always at least the possibility that your knife was used in some kind of crime and that's why it was buried.

Are there any marks (symbols) or signatures anywhere on your knife? More modern blades have maker's marks and also might be stamped "stainless steel". Older blades often have marks too but they will be different.

If you want to find out more about your knife, such as what era it might be from and what its original use was, you could take a number of good photos and then check with some antiques dealers who specialize in knives. You can also google "antique knife collectors" and some helpful info should pop up.
(I wouldn't suggest carrying a blade that size around with you when you make your initial inquiries. )

Good luck,
Archaic

Hi, and thanks for the luck, no markings what so ever, some one who i belive to know of knifes told me it could be from a 100 years old to 200 years old, and that he thinks its a fishmongers knife, also that it is of high quality craftsmanship for the oldness of the knife. Have tried "antique knife collectors" on google but with no luck yet.Ja ja ja do you think i,m mad, walking around with a twevle inch blade in mi bin (pocket) have no fear the knifes well stashed away (in safe keeping). I have a question to ask, all this about computers and forums is all new to me, i have six pages of writing to post on the forum, am i permited? will it all fit in one reply? Tank you and all the best. Niko.

[niko]

I can't think of a better place to start, uncovering an old knife there. Thanks for sharing. It's good to have you, an East Ender with us, and I wish you well studying the old murders.

Roy

Thanks for your welome, i have studied the basic facts regarding the murders, but i think you,ll understand that what im studying at present is every thing surounding the knifes, in the JTR case, to be exactly all the "facts" surounding the knifes.All right then mate, all the best.

[niko]

Reason why i think the knife i posses could be connectedto the JTRcase.

Wolf,

Of course you are correct about it not being Coram's knife. I am hanging around to see what Niko might know about Kosminski's cousin.

Cheers,

Mike

Hello to everybody, how can i begin. In my trade paper "n" pen and words are not mt tools. My trade is the construction, i am a bricklayer,bricky or builder, any of those names will do. This is why i think i have a problem trying to explain what i mean to say. "here we go then" I totally comprehend that everybody disbilieve in my story,but it does not bother me,some nutter like me pops out of the blue and says his got a knfe that he thinks is connected to the Jack the ripper case. Logical to disbelive, i would do the same. But one thing i would like you all to understand is that i do believe in my story, thinking is free,as to coment is free, I have my own hypothesis on Jack the ripper, Whitechapel murders. Partly being, "1" i believe there was,is,a sort of coverup, why? don,t know "2" i believe there was a goup of people involved."3" could of involved some sort of black magic ritual or somthing, "4" i also believe that the truth always comes out sooner or later.I spoken with a few JTR experts, one i think propably the number one ripper expert in the world, "i will mention no names", told me that in my research to take note of information taken from official reports, you know, medical examiners,inquests, court hearings news papers although i usually say "don,t belive what the papers say". Here are some points of information i found that made me suspicious of the knife i found. Here are some quotes i have noted.............the knife produced on ythe last occasion was delivered to me,properly secured,by a constable,and on examination i found it to be such a knife as used in a CHANDLERS shop,and i called a slicing knife. It has blood upon it, whic has charateristics simular to the blood of human being. It has been recentlyt blunted,and its edge apparently TURNED by rubbing on a stone such as a kerbstone. It evidently was before a very sharp knife..........another quote.........a ROUND POINTED instrument,would seriuosly handicap himself, as he would be only able to use it in one particular way. I am told that slaughterers always use a SHARP POINTED instrument........another quote...........and there was evidence that an axe was used in the crime,a long with the LONG,SHARP KNIFE the ripper was known to use.............another quote...........Much importance is attached to a blood-stained knife which was found in Whitechapel-Road,as detailed at the inquest,but nothing has yet been found to through light on how it got there nearly twenty four hours after the murder was comitted. It was such a weapon as might have inflicted the wounds,but wether it really is the knife which the miscreant used cannot be ascertianed.......................another quote..............The chararcter of the kniofe used,as suggested by the medical evidence at the inquest, is simular in kind to the instument, known as a FRENCH COOKS KNIFE, or at least,is,in the surcumstances,more consistent with its use by a foreigner than an English man................another quote...... midnight on Sunday,found in Whitechapel-Road a knife about a foot long, such as used by a baker in there trade. It was discoloured with blood,a hankerchief which was bound around the handle was also bloodstianed. Mr Phillips, the police surgeon,having given his acount of the post-mortem examination, the inquiry was adjourned.....................another quote............ it has been recently BLUNTED and the EDGE TURNED,by apparently rubbing on a stone. It evidently was before that very sharp knife,which suggests that its owner,in a temper,had blunted it because it had injured him. A final mystery,what would actually motivated the killer to use a different knife on Liz Stride?.........another quote ...............This quote is about Matha Tabram,which i think is sure to be a ripper victim. The exception ws a wound,on the chest bone which appears to have been made with a stronger-bladed weapon such as a dagger or sword bayonet...................another quote.............."Doctor Phillips" a small amputating knife,or well ground butchers knife,NARROW and THIN,sharp with a blade from six to eight inches long..................another quote..............from Nichols............to Kelly were "no doubt"comitted by the same person,that a knife at least six inches long, very sharp,POINTED and aBOUT an inch in width had been used,possibly a clasp knife,butchers knife or a surgeons knife...............another quote........ .......The BLADE was about TEN INCHES LONG. Coram called P.C Drage 282 H. Asked the lad how he came to see it,he said i was just looking around,and i saw somthing white. "further on says" The knife and hankerchief produced.The boy was sober,and his manner natural.He said that made his blood ran cold,adding"we hear of such funny things nowadays". ........ When i read this report a strange feeling came all over my body, it was the first time i had read about the hankerchief being tied with a STRING,the same as the knife i found in the arch.From this point onwards it was when i seriously began to think that the knife could be connected to the JTR case........... another quote............left, the knives most closely resembles my perception of the murder weapon.They are the type of knife that a fish porter like Joe Barnett would have used routinely in his work. No more quotes. As i could not remember what a CHANDLER was, i searched on the internet and found this, Chandler. The tools that had to be used to make a candle were a wicking board,candle rod,knives and rifles, the wicking board was a piece of wood used to cut the bottom of the candles. The candle rod was a stick that many wicks were placed so that they could be dipped, knives were used to cut the animal fat,wicks and the bottom of the candles. Where most people did all this work was at their home.It would,nt matter if you were in the country side or town because they needed lighto work. Further on it mentions that they neededto have hunting skills and knowledge on removing the fat from the animal "the last bit sounds suspicious" the same way as butcher and slaughterers were at the time suspicious in my eyes a chandler would also be,all this makes me feel like starting to talk about "thieves candles" and all that,but wi,ll leave that aside. This is another of my hypothesis, i think i,m correct on the following. Imagine you have a long bladed knife,starting from a sharp point to the blade widening to two inches at the handle end. You penetrate the knife all the way into living flesh,all the way in to the handle, its obviuos that the slit ( hole ) is going to be two inches wide, "logical". But what happens when you pull the blade out of the flesh? I think that the flesh, tissues,muscles inclueded will CONTRACT and the slit on the flesh will no longer be two iches wide,but would have reduced to less than an inch " i could be wrong and just Talking a load of BULL" . I say this i supose the medical examiners took this into consideration because if not,that explians their hypothesis on the murder weapon being of only one inch wide,sharp long bladed knife,....sorry...... another quote...........coroner.The knife produced on the last accasion was not SHARP POINTED,was it? No,it was ROUNDED at the TIP,which was about an inch across,the blade was WIDER at the base ( to me, only a pointed instrument has a tip). Its like before " the tip of the point was rounded BLA,BLA,BLA, don,t understand how a non pointed rounded end knife has a POINT and a TIP" read the last quote again, this quote seems very impotant for me in the dicription of the knife Thomas Coram found. OK lets change the subject, where i live there are many wild animals one being,the wild boar,in the winter moths,in the hunting season i atend wild boar hunts.I know more than twenty wild boar hunters and i can garantee you,not one would dream of using a round ended knife like the ones mentoined in the JTR case,or like the ones on exhibiton in some musems, for hunting, niether for killing the animal,skining the animal or quartering,cutting the meat of the animal. On ocasion a hunting friend saw the knife i have,and suggested to take it along to the boar hunts, that it would be useful.I told him the story about the knife,"i can still hear him laughing yet" he thinks like many of my Basque friends, that im mad and the whole stoy is bullshite.No problem.I mentioned the hunting bit because it gives me reason to believe Jack the ripper was a silent predator,a sort of a vicous hunter and of course a murderer.Thats why it greatly stranges me that he would choose a round ended knife of a mere one inch width.Iwould think tha a long,thin,one inch wide, could snap whilst using and on being forced. I would think the murderer would fill more confident in his task,on using a hunting knife,dagger,bayonet, slaughterers knife,french cooks knife,butchers knife,chandlers knife,the one he would use to remove the large bits of fat from the animal, or a long,pointed,strong,thin,wide,sharp knife, for example..... like ther one i have,ja ja ja only jokeing. If the knife i have is Corams original knife and there is a sort of cover-up in all this with JTR, i am sure that the knfe will be proofed a fake. Well i think its time to stop writing,because the stem coming out of my ears is becoming thicker, i repeat i understand in your disbilieve in my story,and that many of you are thinking that im a mad idiot,no problem,"because on this side of the computer i feel like a right pratt" but you know what the problem is,that my belief in my stoy is geater than my ego.One last thing, i would like to make an understandable discription of the blade of the knife when i found it,the cutting edge was completly blunt, as if the cutting edge had been filed flat with a file,IMPORTANT the TIP of the POINT was rounded off,as if it had been chipped off whilst striking something like hard bone or a cobbled pavement.This is another IMPORTANT detail the shape ( form ) was that of s spanking new knife,as if it had never been used (until silly me grinded the blade down a bit with an electric grinding stone) thats all folk,and thankyou for reading. Im dreading the part of the possible conection between the arch were i found the evil looking knife and Aaron Kozminski,s cousin, all the best Agur.

[niko]

continue

Hello to everybody, how can i begin. In my trade paper "n" pen and words are not mt tools. My trade is the construction, i am a bricklayer,bricky or builder, any of those names will do. This is why i think i have a problem trying to explain what i mean to say. "here we go then" I totally comprehend that everybody disbilieve in my story,but it does not bother me,some nutter like me pops out of the blue and says his got a knfe that he thinks is connected to the Jack the ripper case. Logical to disbelive, i would do the same. But one thing i would like you all to understand is that i do believe in my story, thinking is free,as to coment is free, I have my own hypothesis on Jack the ripper, Whitechapel murders. Partly being, "1" i believe there was,is,a sort of coverup, why? don,t know "2" i believe there was a goup of people involved."3" could of involved some sort of black magic ritual or somthing, "4" i also believe that the truth always comes out sooner or later.I spoken with a few JTR experts, one i think propably the number one ripper expert in the world, "i will mention no names", told me that in my research to take note of information taken from official reports, you know, medical examiners,inquests, court hearings news papers although i usually say "don,t belive what the papers say". Here are some points of information i found that made me suspicious of the knife i found. Here are some quotes i have noted.............the knife produced on ythe last occasion was delivered to me,properly secured,by a constable,and on examination i found it to be such a knife as used in a CHANDLERS shop,and i called a slicing knife. It has blood upon it, whic has charateristics simular to the blood of human being. It has been recentlyt blunted,and its edge apparently TURNED by rubbing on a stone such as a kerbstone. It evidently was before a very sharp knife..........another quote.........a ROUND POINTED instrument,would seriuosly handicap himself, as he would be only able to use it in one particular way. I am told that slaughterers always use a SHARP POINTED instrument........another quote...........and there was evidence that an axe was used in the crime,a long with the LONG,SHARP KNIFE the ripper was known to use.............another quote...........Much importance is attached to a blood-stained knife which was found in Whitechapel-Road,as detailed at the inquest,but nothing has yet been found to through light on how it got there nearly twenty four hours after the murder was comitted. It was such a weapon as might have inflicted the wounds,but wether it really is the knife which the miscreant used cannot be ascertianed.......................another quote..............The chararcter of the kniofe used,as suggested by the medical evidence at the inquest, is simular in kind to the instument, known as a FRENCH COOKS KNIFE, or at least,is,in the surcumstances,more consistent with its use by a foreigner than an English man................another quote...... midnight on Sunday,found in Whitechapel-Road a knife about a foot long, such as used by a baker in there trade. It was discoloured with blood,a hankerchief which was bound around the handle was also bloodstianed. Mr Phillips, the police surgeon,having given his acount of the post-mortem examination, the inquiry was adjourned.....................another quote............ it has been recently BLUNTED and the EDGE TURNED,by apparently rubbing on a stone. It evidently was before that very sharp knife,which suggests that its owner,in a temper,had blunted it because it had injured him. A final mystery,what would actually motivated the killer to use a different knife on Liz Stride?.........another quote ...............This quote is about Matha Tabram,which i think is sure to be a ripper victim. The exception ws a wound,on the chest bone which appears to have been made with a stronger-bladed weapon such as a dagger or sword bayonet...................another quote.............."Doctor Phillips" a small amputating knife,or well ground butchers knife,NARROW and THIN,sharp with a blade from six to eight inches long..................another quote..............from Nichols............to Kelly were "no doubt"comitted by the same person,that a knife at least six inches long, very sharp,POINTED and aBOUT an inch in width had been used,possibly a clasp knife,butchers knife or a surgeons knife...............another quote........ .......The BLADE was about TEN INCHES LONG. Coram called P.C Drage 282 H. Asked the lad how he came to see it,he said i was just looking around,and i saw somthing white. "further on says" The knife and hankerchief produced.The boy was sober,and his manner natural.He said that made his blood ran cold,adding"we hear of such funny things nowadays". ........ When i read this report a strange feeling came all over my body, it was the first time i had read about the hankerchief being tied with a STRING,the same as the knife i found in the arch.From this point onwards it was when i seriously began to think that the knife could be connected to the JTR case........... another quote............left, the knives most closely resembles my perception of the murder weapon.They are the type of knife that a fish porter like Joe Barnett would have used routinely in his work. No more quotes. As i could not remember what a CHANDLER was, i searched on the internet and found this, Chandler. The tools that had to be used to make a candle were a wicking board,candle rod,knives and rifles, the wicking board was a piece of wood used to cut the bottom of the candles. The candle rod was a stick that many wicks were placed so that they could be dipped, knives were used to cut the animal fat,wicks and the bottom of the candles. Where most people did all this work was at their home.It would,nt matter if you were in the country side or town because they needed lighto work. Further on it mentions that they neededto have hunting skills and knowledge on removing the fat from the animal "the last bit sounds suspicious" the same way as butcher and slaughterers were at the time suspicious in my eyes a chandler would also be,all this makes me feel like starting to talk about "thieves candles" and all that,but wi,ll leave that aside. This is another of my hypothesis, i think i,m correct on the following. Imagine you have a long bladed knife,starting from a sharp point to the blade widening to two inches at the handle end. You penetrate the knife all the way into living flesh,all the way in to the handle, its obviuos that the slit ( hole ) is going to be two inches wide, "logical". But what happens when you pull the blade out of the flesh? I think that the flesh, tissues,muscles inclueded will CONTRACT and the slit on the flesh will no longer be two iches wide,but would have reduced to less than an inch " i could be wrong and just Talking a load of BULL" . I say this i supose the medical examiners took this into consideration because if not,that explians their hypothesis on the murder weapon being of only one inch wide,sharp long bladed knife,....sorry...... another quote...........coroner.The knife produced on the last accasion was not SHARP POINTED,was it? No,it was ROUNDED at the TIP,which was about an inch across,the blade was WIDER at the base ( to me, only a pointed instrument has a tip). Its like before " the tip of the point was rounded BLA,BLA,BLA, don,t understand how a non pointed rounded end knife has a POINT and a TIP" read the last quote again, this quote seems very impotant for me in the dicription of the knife Thomas Coram found. OK lets change the subject, where i live there are many wild animals one being,the wild boar,in the winter moths,in the hunting season i atend wild boar hunts.I know more than twenty wild boar hunters and i can garantee you,not one would dream of using a round ended knife like the ones mentoined in the JTR case,or like the ones on exhibiton in some musems, for hunting, niether for killing the animal,skining the animal or quartering,cutting the meat of the animal. On ocasion a hunting friend saw the knife i have,and suggested to take it along to the boar hunts, that it would be useful.I told him the story about the knife,"i can still hear him laughing yet" he thinks like many of my Basque friends, that im mad and the whole stoy is bullshite.No problem.I mentioned the hunting bit because it gives me reason to believe Jack the ripper was a silent predator,a sort of a vicous hunter and of course a murderer.Thats why it greatly stranges me that he would choose a round ended knife of a mere one inch width.Iwould think tha a long,thin,one inch wide, could snap whilst using and on being forced. I would think the murderer would fill more confident in his task,on using a hunting knife,dagger,bayonet, slaughterers knife,french cooks knife,butchers knife,chandlers knife,the one he would use to remove the large bits of fat from the animal, or a long,pointed,strong,thin,wide,sharp knife, for example..... like ther one i have,ja ja ja only jokeing. If the knife i have is Corams original knife and there is a sort of cover-up in all this with JTR, i am sure that the knfe will be proofed a fake. Well i think its time to stop writing,because the stem coming out of my ears is becoming thicker, i repeat i understand in your disbilieve in my story,and that many of you are thinking that im a mad idiot,no problem,"because on this side of the computer i feel like a right pratt" but you know what the problem is,that my belief in my stoy is geater than my ego.One last thing, i would like to make an understandable discription of the blade of the knife when i found it,the cutting edge was completly blunt, as if the cutting edge had been filed flat with a file,IMPORTANT the TIP of the POINT was rounded off,as if it had been chipped off whilst striking something like hard bone or a cobbled pavement.This is another IMPORTANT detail the shape ( form ) was that of s spanking new knife,as if it had never been used (until silly me grinded the blade down a bit with an electric grinding stone) thats all folk,and thankyou for reading. Im dreading the part of the possible conection between the arch were i found the evil looking knife and Aaron Kozminski,s cousin, all the best Agur.

Hi its me again, I feel like a right pratt. All that writing yesterday,and i go and leave out the most important sentence,were it refers to a sting...........another quote..............The daily Telegraph, 4 October 1888. P C Joseph Drage "I then saw a long bladed knife on the door step,i picked up the knife and found it was smothered with blood.Was it wet blood?Dry.A hankerchief, which was also blood-stained,was bound round the handle and tied with a STRING."This dam word STRING" has the blame for thinking that the knife i posses, is the knife in question, as the knife i found over twentyfive years ago burried in an arch in the East End of London,was bent and also had a rotten cloth wraped round the handle and tied with a thin, neatly tied STRING. Another thing i would like to say is,who in their sane mind would walk around at midnight,with a foot long bent knife and covered with blood, with the atmosphere freshly smelling of murders, and swaming with police "im sure I would,nt, would you?" especially knowing that you could be stoped and searched on the spot in any second,and once the knife found in your possesion,would surely be arrested,charged for the Whitechapel murders and sentenced to be hanged. If i did have to deposit the knife their i would do it during the day as the chances of getting stoped and searched would be tremendously smaller I heard of a lot of nutters,mental cases and mad men in the East End, but i think not one would risk his neck, especially if if its only reason was a prank,or a hoax like was thought by many at the time of the murder,one opinion i can suggest is the same man or men, who had the gutts,coldbloodness,knowledge of the area and also of great calmness so to not rise any suspicions,and filled the streets of the East with mutilated bodies of all them poor women.All the best,Agur.

[niko]

type,s of knives mentioned (discribied) at inquest..

Hi its me again, I feel like a right pratt. All that writing yesterday,and i go and leave out the most important sentence,were it refers to a sting...........another quote..............The daily Telegraph, 4 October 1888. P C Joseph Drage "I then saw a long bladed knife on the door step,i picked up the knife and found it was smothered with blood.Was it wet blood?Dry.A hankerchief, which was also blood-stained,was bound round the handle and tied with a STRING."This dam word STRING" has the blame for thinking that the knife i posses, is the knife in question, as the knife i found over twentyfive years ago burried in an arch in the East End of London,was bent and also had a rotten cloth wraped round the handle and tied with a thin, neatly tied STRING. Another thing i would like to say is,who in their sane mind would walk around at midnight,with a foot long bent knife and covered with blood, with the atmosphere freshly smelling of murders, and swaming with police "im sure I would,nt, would you?" especially knowing that you could be stoped and searched on the spot in any second,and once the knife found in your possesion,would surely be arrested,charged for the Whitechapel murders and sentenced to be hanged. If i did have to deposit the knife their i would do it during the day as the chances of getting stoped and searched would be tremendously smaller I heard of a lot of nutters,mental cases and mad men in the East End, but i think not one would risk his neck, especially if if its only reason was a prank,or a hoax like was thought by many at the time of the murder,one opinion i can suggest is the same man or men, who had the gutts,coldbloodness,knowledge of the area and also of great calmness so to not rise any suspicions,and filled the streets of the East with mutilated bodies of all them poor women.All the best,Agur.

Hi, its me again,this are three knives that i have found on the internet,which i think resemble the knife which was mentioned in the inquest," you know the one found by Thomas Coram".The knife with the red background, is a late 1800, western plain butcher, the knife with the tapemeasure is a sabatier-chefs knife.France sabatier intedge.The next one is obvious,12inch baker pallet round end knife. I could not find a picture of a chandlers knife,although i could take a quess what it could look like, i found more pictures of similar knives but i think this three will do, ok then,all the best,Agur.

[niko]

pictures of mentioned knives

Hi, its me again,this are three knives that i have found on the internet,which i think resemble the knife which was mentioned in the inquest," you know the one found by Thomas Coram".The knife with the red background, is a late 1800, western plain butcher, the knife with the tapemeasure is a sabatier-chefs knife.France sabatier intedge.The next one is obvious,12inch baker pallet round end knife. I could not find a picture of a chandlers knife,although i could take a quess what it could look like, i found more pictures of similar knives but i think this three will do, ok then,all the best,Agur.

P.S the round ended knife is not the one quoted, its another one, impassible post the other one, but you can look for yourselfs on the internet,Agur.

[niko]

this knife is the butcher knife.

P.S the round ended knife is not the one quoted, its another one, impassible post the other one, but you can look for yourselfs on the internet,Agur.

This is the western plain butcher late 1800, i have found various of this type and of the right age on the internet.All the best,Agur.

[Archaic]

Hi Niko.

I googled "antique knife collectors, uk" and got some hits.

Here's a website offering multiple links to other sites: http://www.knifefairs.co.uk/links.html

There are also many knife books, usually referred to as "collector's guides," available on Amazon.com. Try searches like "19th Century Knives".

Some antique stores sell books on various collecting subjects, and antique shows/fairs usually have booths selling antique collecting guides on every subject under the sun.

Hope this helps. And I'm glad to hear you're not riding around on the bus with that big knife in your pocket!

Best regards,
Archaic

[niko]

Hi Niko.

I googled "antique knife collectors, uk" and got some hits.

Here's a website offering multiple links to other sites: http://www.knifefairs.co.uk/links.html

There are also many knife books, usually referred to as "collector's guides," available on Amazon.com. Try searches like "19th Century Knives".

Some antique stores sell books on various collecting subjects, and antique shows/fairs usually have booths selling antique collecting guides on every subject under the sun.

Hope this helps. And I'm glad to hear you're not riding around on the bus with that big knife in your pocket!

Best regards,
Archaic

Hi Archaic,thank,s alot for your interest,i really liked the icon at the end of your letter, the one with a knife through his head, thats just what i feel like.I looked up what you said,iv,e joined a forum and waiting the registrstion to be valid, but my thought of the knife being that of a fishmonger or a butcher has lost considrable weight.I now am almost certain it is a (SABATIER COOKS KNIFE).I showed a photo of the knife to a local fishmonger and he says that its no way a fishmongers kinfe.I have found a picture on the internet of a VINTAGE, ANTIQUE SABATIER-CHEFS KNIFE,FRANCE SABATIER KNIFE CARANTI-SABATIER INTEDGE- .The picture of the knife ive attached to this post is IDENTICAL to the knife i have,the blade is the same shape as to when i found the knife,before i grinded down the blade.In the knife forum they will take me out of doubts,but im sure its a SABATIER COOKS KNIFE, a member of the forum had mentioned in a previuos post that he thought it was a SABATIER. Decide for yourself compare the picture of the knife first posted to that of the knife on this post,all right then mate thanks again,Agur.

[niko]

Hi Archaic,thank,s alot for your interest,i really liked the icon at the end of your letter, the one with a knife through his head, thats just what i feel like.I looked up what you said,iv,e joined a forum and waiting the registrstion to be valid, but my thought of the knife being that of a fishmonger or a butcher has lost considrable weight.I now am almost certain it is a (SABATIER COOKS KNIFE).I showed a photo of the knife to a local fishmonger and he says that its no way a fishmongers kinfe.I have found a picture on the internet of a VINTAGE, ANTIQUE SABATIER-CHEFS KNIFE,FRANCE SABATIER KNIFE CARANTI-SABATIER INTEDGE- .The picture of the knife ive attached to this post is IDENTICAL to the knife i have,the blade is the same shape as to when i found the knife,before i grinded down the blade.In the knife forum they will take me out of doubts,but im sure its a SABATIER COOKS KNIFE, a member of the forum had mentioned in a previuos post that he thought it was a SABATIER. Decide for yourself compare the picture of the knife first posted to that of the knife on this post,all right then mate thanks again,Agur.

Hi,me again,i belief the knife i poses and think it could be the knife Thomas Coram found in Whitechapel in 1888 is a sabatier cooks (chefs) knife,which was in circulation in the late 1800s.The reason i think that the knife has no engravings or makers markings,could be due to,that manufacturs did not (register) begin with the French legistation of interllectual property rights untill the late 1800s early 1900s.Well lets see now,i find a 30cm blade long sabatiers cooks (chefs)knife,(the longest blade i have found made in Theirs France),the blade is of carbon steel,the wooden handle is made from Ebony wood.It brings me to believe this was not a cheap knife, so why the hell bury it in a railway arch in the East End.Was it for safe keeping? There must be A REASON.The following is a bit of history regarding the Sabatier knife.The Sabatier knife was born in the Theirs neighbourhood (central France) at the beginning of the 19th century.Its a professional knife for cooks and butchers and actually bears the name from a family in Theirs.The Sabatier brand is ancient and appeared at a time well before the first French legistation concerning intellectual property rights.In those days registration of the brand name Sabatier had to be accompinied by a word or traditional image.Theirs is famous for its knives,blades,and cutlerly.(The sombre of medieval Theirs)still the home to the Sabatier knife,belies its centuries of international fame as the capital of French cutlerly manufacturing. Sabatier is a type of French cooking knives,at the beginning of the 1800s two different families both with the same name of Sabatier began making Sabatiers in Theirs France.I understand that the Sabatier knife was copied by English and other European knife makers,dueing it to be a good usefull knife, saying this there could be a chance that the knife i poses,could of have been forged in England,alright then everybody,cheers,and all the best,Agur.

[Dr. John Watson]

In Don Rumbelow's books, there's a photo of a "contemporary post mortem knife" which Don states, "may have belonged to the Ripper." The blade is snapped off at the handle. I couldn't quickly find where in the book he tells the story of that knife, but I do seem to recall that he said it had been held at Scotland Yard for years as evidence in the Ripper murders, then somehow ended up as someone's garden tool, which is when the blade was broken.

John

[ChrisGeorge]

In Don Rumbelow's books, there's a photo of a "contemporary post mortem knife" which Don states, "may have belonged to the Ripper." The blade is snapped off at the handle. I couldn't quickly find where in the book he tells the story of that knife, but I do seem to recall that he said it had been held at Scotland Yard for years as evidence in the Ripper murders, then somehow ended up as someone's garden tool, which is when the blade was broken.

John

Hello John

The knife that you are talking about, which I believe is in the possession of Don Rumbelow, is thought to have been found at the scene of one of the later Whitechapel murders though not one of the five canonical murders. It was owned for some years of Miss Dorothy Stroud, during which time it was, as you say, used as a garden tool. I am not sure that it was ever in the Yard's Black Museum, however, as you imply. The knife, which is similar to a surgeon's amputation knife, has also been likened to the Weiss knives used in the Phoenix Park murders committed by Fenians in Dublin in 1882. See this old Casebook thread.

Best regards

Chris George

[Dr. John Watson]

Here is what Rumbelow says about the knife in his book: The knife originally had been in the possession of Hugh Pollard, editor of Sporting Life and one-time "gun expert" for Scotland Yard. It and a twin had been in a box lined with blue silk and heavily bloodstained. Pollard later gave the box to an associate, Dorothy Stroud, telling her it contained "Jack the Ripper's knives." Stroud kept one knife and gave the other to a friend. The box was burned because it was so bloodstained. Rumbelow met Stroud years later at the Guildhall Records Office, and she told him the story of the knives. She had used the knife she'd been given as a carving knife, then later as a gardening knife until the blade snapped off. She had kept the pieces and gave them to Rumbelow. He took them to the eminent pathologist, Professor Francis Camps, who immediately identified it as a post mortem knife with a thumb grip on the blade which is specifically designed for "ripping" upwards. It was Rumbelow's belief that the Yard had given the knives to Pollard, possibly to destroy, but that he had kept them because of what he'd been told.

John

[Dr. John Watson]

Chris, I was hunting for the knife history in Don's book and posted what I'd found before reading your post. The knife pictured in Don's book is nothing like the one found in the street in Whitechapel. Frankly, the idea that the Ripper's knife had to be of a certain length or special design is not really based on any solid evidence. Fact is, there is no damage done to any of the Ripper victims that could not be caused by a high-quality steak knife, or a razor for that matter.

John the Knife