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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Victims > Mary Jane Kelly

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  #1  
Old 09-28-2016, 04:22 AM
cesjak cesjak is offline
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Default Possible Mary Kelly Birth

Following online access to the Irish Civil records, I came across the birth entry fo a Mary Kelly born 1864 at Bridgetown, Limerick. Father is John Kelly. Has this been found previously in the past and rejected for some reason, as I am sure I have read on many occasions that no birth record matching Mary's has been found in Limerick by researchers. This seems to tick some boxes.
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  #2  
Old 09-28-2016, 09:13 AM
Debra A Debra A is offline
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That certainly looks a possible, cesjak.

Statutory registration of births began in Ireland in 1864 so I compiled a list of girls named Mary/Maria etc. born and baptised as Catholics in Limerick County between 1855 and 1865 (before statutory registration in 1864) whose father was named John a while back. I'll reprost it here for interest:


Maria Kelly 1857 Kilfinane Limerick Joannis Brigida
Maria Kelly 1858 Mungret Limerick Joanne Maria
Mariam Kelly 1853 Mahoonagh Limerick Joanne Maria
Mariam Kelly 1855 Glin Limerick Joanne Ellena
Mariam Kelly 1859 Croagh Limerick Joannis Honora
Mary Kelly 1853 St. Mary's, Limerick city Limerick John Johanna
Mary Kelly 1854 St. John's, Limerick city Limerick John Eliza
Mary Kelly 1855 Knockany and Patrickswell Limerick John Margt
Mary Jane Kellaher 1865 St. Michael's, Limerick city Limerick John Bridget
Mary Kelly 1862 Kilbehenny Limerick John Mary
Mary Kelly 1865 Ballylanders Limerick John Mary
Mariam Kelley 1861 Cahirnorry Limerick Joannes Honora
Maria Kelly 1857 Kilfinane Limerick Joannis Brigida
Maria Kelly 1862 Bruree Limerick Joaquin Maria
Maria Kelly 1863 Killeedy Limerick Joannis Maria
Maria Kelly 1864 Ballyagran Limerick, Cork Joannis Annaearlier this year
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Old 09-28-2016, 09:58 AM
DirectorDave DirectorDave is offline
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Right time, right place, right names.

Has Mary been hiding in plain sight all along?
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Old 09-28-2016, 02:34 PM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirectorDave View Post
Right time, right place, right names.

Has Mary been hiding in plain sight all along?
The surname Kelly is the second most popular name in Ireland.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk
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Old 09-28-2016, 02:39 PM
GUT GUT is offline
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And Mary must be the most popular first name, if not darn close to it.
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Old 09-28-2016, 02:50 PM
DirectorDave DirectorDave is offline
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I'm not quite sure of why Kelly being a popular name detracts from "hiding in plain sight"...if you are saying there are many Kellys and this can be one of many then we already knew that before anyone started looking.

There is an analogy with how Ford Prefect chose his name here...but I cant quite string it together.
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Old 09-29-2016, 07:57 AM
cesjak cesjak is offline
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Thanks for the replies. I thought I would just put this out there as I found it odd that I had read sources that stated there was no birth record in Limerick that would match. I knew it was a long shot as there was no guarantee she was using a real name or the possibility that she was actually welsh! Its one of the bigger mysteries within the whole conundrum. Finding the correct identity may lead to other breakthroughs. Still living in hope that more will be discovered.
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Old 09-29-2016, 09:28 AM
Debra A Debra A is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cesjak View Post
Thanks for the replies. I thought I would just put this out there as I found it odd that I had read sources that stated there was no birth record in Limerick that would match. I knew it was a long shot as there was no guarantee she was using a real name or the possibility that she was actually welsh! Its one of the bigger mysteries within the whole conundrum. Finding the correct identity may lead to other breakthroughs. Still living in hope that more will be discovered.
Until the Catholic baptisms went online recently, it was impossible to know how many women named Mary Kelly whose father was named John were born in Limerick (County or City), people were reliant on just statutory registration records and the Catholic church tended to keep a hold of their records at the church they related to and statutory registration didn't start until 1864 in Ireland. If MJK had been born a Catholic and before 1864 she obviously wouldn't show in the SB records but with the new chusrch records databses we can see that there were 16 possibles among just those Catholic records that have been put online.
Yours definitely fits in the list of possibles.
The difficulty still is matching up MJK to any of these births because there isn't an Irish census that still exists before 1891 to tace anyone on.
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Last edited by Debra A : 09-29-2016 at 09:34 AM.
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Old 09-29-2016, 03:12 PM
cesjak cesjak is offline
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Originally Posted by Debra A View Post
Until the Catholic baptisms went online recently, it was impossible to know how many women named Mary Kelly whose father was named John were born in Limerick (County or City), people were reliant on just statutory registration records and the Catholic church tended to keep a hold of their records at the church they related to and statutory registration didn't start until 1864 in Ireland. If MJK had been born a Catholic and before 1864 she obviously wouldn't show in the SB records but with the new chusrch records databses we can see that there were 16 possibles among just those Catholic records that have been put online.
Yours definitely fits in the list of possibles.
The difficulty still is matching up MJK to any of these births because there isn't an Irish census that still exists before 1891 to tace anyone on.
Understood, didn't mean to cause controversy. There was only one other that I found on their site with a father named John. He was a soldier stationed at the Cape of Good Hope, so ruled that one out. Just thought it might be interesting to share, never believed it would be definitive. Take the point that Mary and Kelly are common Irish names and will not be resolved in that case, especially if it wasn't her real name. But hopefully people won't give up trying.
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Old 09-29-2016, 11:09 PM
Debra A Debra A is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cesjak View Post
Understood, didn't mean to cause controversy. There was only one other that I found on their site with a father named John. He was a soldier stationed at the Cape of Good Hope, so ruled that one out. Just thought it might be interesting to share, never believed it would be definitive. Take the point that Mary and Kelly are common Irish names and will not be resolved in that case, especially if it wasn't her real name. But hopefully people won't give up trying.
I wasn't knocking you for it by any means. Just trying to explain the background to the previous birth searches only turning up one ot two possibles when the release of Catholic records show there were a few more.
There may be a few to look at but I agree that one of that list certainly could have been MJK, if she told Barnett the truth, including the one you found.
If these records were English we could document the lives of these girls with their families on census records but not so for Ireland so actually ruling out any of these births is difficult unless they died in infancy.
The number isn't necessarily the problem, it's the follow up research that is, was all I was trying to convey to others posting here.
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