Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Main
   

Introduction
Victims
Suspects
Witnesses
Ripper Letters
Police Officials
Official Documents
Press Reports
Victorian London
Message Boards
Ripper Media
Authors
Dissertations
Timelines
Games & Diversions
Photo Archive
Ripper Wiki
Casebook Examiner
Ripper Podcast
About the Casebook

Most Recent Posts:
Conferences and Meetings: American Jack the Ripper - True Crime Conference, Baltimore, April 7-8, 2018 - by Steadmund Brand 13 minutes ago.
Motive, Method and Madness: Same motive = same killer - by Abby Normal 20 minutes ago.
Motive, Method and Madness: Same motive = same killer - by Fisherman 20 minutes ago.
Motive, Method and Madness: Same motive = same killer - by Fisherman 25 minutes ago.
Motive, Method and Madness: Same motive = same killer - by Sam Flynn 26 minutes ago.
Motive, Method and Madness: Same motive = same killer - by Abby Normal 31 minutes ago.

Most Popular Threads:
Motive, Method and Madness: Same motive = same killer - (66 posts)
General Suspect Discussion: Only one suspect can be shown to have carried a knife. - (31 posts)
Maybrick, James: 25 YEARS OF THE DIARY OF JACK THE RIPPER: THE TRUE FACTS by Robert Smith - (7 posts)
Witnesses: Packer and the Pinchin Street torso - (5 posts)
Martha Tabram: Probibility of Martha Tabram Being a JtR Victim - (5 posts)
Visual Media: New play about Jack the Ripper (Denver, CO) - (4 posts)

Wiki Updates:
Robert Sagar
Edit: Chris
May 9, 2015, 12:32 am
Online newspaper archives
Edit: Chris
Nov 26, 2014, 10:25 am
Joseph Lawende
Edit: Chris
Mar 9, 2014, 10:12 am
Miscellaneous research resources
Edit: Chris
Feb 13, 2014, 9:28 am
Charles Cross
Edit: John Bennett
Sep 4, 2013, 8:20 pm

Most Recent Blogs:
Mike Covell: A DECADE IN THE MAKING.
February 19, 2016, 11:12 am.
Chris George: RipperCon in Baltimore, April 8-10, 2016
February 10, 2016, 2:55 pm.
Mike Covell: Hull Prison Visit
October 10, 2015, 8:04 am.
Mike Covell: NEW ADVENTURES IN RESEARCH
August 9, 2015, 3:10 am.
Mike Covell: UPDDATES FOR THE PAST 11 MONTHS
November 14, 2014, 10:02 am.
Mike Covell: Mike’s Book Releases
March 17, 2014, 3:18 am.

Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Motive, Method and Madness

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #11  
Old 11-04-2015, 09:16 AM
FrankO FrankO is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 778
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lynn cates View Post
Sometimes I am near despair listening to rot about posing and victimology.
Then don't listen, Lynn.
__________________
"You can rob me, you can starve me and you can beat me and you can kill me. Just don't bore me."
Clint Eastwood as Gunny in "Heartbreak Ridge"
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-04-2015, 10:29 AM
Errata Errata is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Tennessee, U.S.
Posts: 2,937
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lynn cates View Post
Hello Dusty. yes, Yes, YES!!

Sometimes I am near despair listening to rot about posing and victimology.

What nonsense!

Cheers.
LC
Well, every serial killer has victimology. It just sometimes isn't terribly specific, or the pattern cannot be discerned outside the killer's scrambled noggin.

And I think they were posed in a sense, in that he did not mutilate them as they fell. He arranged the body so he could do what he wanted. Not with an audience in mind, but for his own purposes. That's still posing, just not for shock value.
__________________
The early bird might get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-04-2015, 12:32 PM
Pierre Pierre is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,407
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SirJohnFalstaff View Post
I think you are being too specific.
He chose these targets because they could offer least resistance (women in poor conditions) and their availability (early hours in the morning).

He switched to earlier killings, putting himself in danger, after Chapman because there were fewer women in the streets in early morning, they were scared.

After the double event, he had to wait a while to be able to perform his atrocities, and worked indoor.
Hi,

but all of the victims of the dismemberment murder weren´t in "poor condition".

And we don´t know the time of those murders either.

And I believe that after the double event he waited for Lord Mayor´s Show.

Regards Pierre

Last edited by Pierre : 11-04-2015 at 12:56 PM.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-04-2015, 04:44 PM
Rosella Rosella is offline
Chief Inspector
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,542
Default

Except for Liz Stride all the C-5 were discovered on their backs, on the ground, (bed), with legs apart or akimbo as if ready for sexual intercourse, while Nichols and Chapman had their clothing rucked up above their knees. Whether you call it posing or not, the killer certainly left them to be found in that position.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-04-2015, 05:05 PM
gnote gnote is offline
Detective
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 195
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosella View Post
Except for Liz Stride all the C-5 were discovered on their backs, on the ground, (bed), with legs apart or akimbo as if ready for sexual intercourse, while Nichols and Chapman had their clothing rucked up above their knees. Whether you call it posing or not, the killer certainly left them to be found in that position.
While true, it doesn't necessarily mean it was deliberate, especially considering the speed of the attacks and mutilations. After what the murderer had already done postmortem, wouldn't it actually be stranger if he left the victims in a more "modest" state?
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-04-2015, 05:25 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is online now
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 5,029
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
Shall we try to make our short definition of the three?

My suggestion:

Victimology:

Poor women often addicted to alcohol selling their bodies cheaply and/or vagabonding in Whitechapel or the City

MO (modus operandi):

Execution in places with a high risk of fast discovery

Signature:

Honour based mutilations and posing

Regards Pierre
Victimology:
Prostitutes and or any woman he could get to a secluded place.

MO
Ruse, getting victim to a secluded place, strangulation, cut throat.

Sig:
Post mortem mutilation to body with knife, with emphasis on extracting internal organs.

Re posing:while he didn't do any overt posing, Many serial killers will cover up or at least make a lame attempt to hide, I think he posed them as in he left them in the most shocking position he could given the lack of time he had, for example leaving their skirts pushed up, exposing the mutilations.
__________________
"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline

Last edited by Abby Normal : 11-04-2015 at 05:32 PM.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-04-2015, 06:29 PM
gnote gnote is offline
Detective
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 195
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
Victimology:
Prostitutes and or any woman he could get to a secluded place.

MO
Ruse, getting victim to a secluded place, strangulation, cut throat.

Sig:
Post mortem mutilation to body with knife, with emphasis on extracting internal organs.

Re posing:while he didn't do any overt posing, Many serial killers will cover up or at least make a lame attempt to hide, I think he posed them as in he left them in the most shocking position he could given the lack of time he had, for example leaving their skirts pushed up, exposing the mutilations.
I agree. For the killer it's very convenient that his victimology and MO work in conjunction. The signature is harder to explain/understand but the first two aid the final result.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-04-2015, 10:36 PM
The Good Michael The Good Michael is offline
Assistant Commissioner
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Hsinchu, Taiwan
Posts: 3,773
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
Victimology:
Prostitutes and or any woman he could get to a secluded place.

MO
Ruse, getting victim to a secluded place, strangulation, cut throat.

Sig:
Post mortem mutilation to body with knife, with emphasis on extracting internal organs.

Re posing:while he didn't do any overt posing, Many serial killers will cover up or at least make a lame attempt to hide, I think he posed them as in he left them in the most shocking position he could given the lack of time he had, for example leaving their skirts pushed up, exposing the mutilations.
I agree with all this. Re: Posing, the way you suggest makes the posing incidental to the murders which means in effect, it wasn't posing. Or?

Mike
__________________
huh?
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11-05-2015, 12:42 AM
lynn cates lynn cates is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 13,841
Default Vielen Dank.

Hello Gwyneth, Michael.

Thanks.

Cheers.
LC
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 11-05-2015, 12:43 AM
lynn cates lynn cates is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 13,841
Default blitz

Hello Frank. Surely "MJK" was no blitz?

Cheers.
LC
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.