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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Motive, Method and Madness

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  #11  
Old 09-13-2010, 02:10 AM
protohistorian protohistorian is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Carter View Post
Hello Dave,

This is indeed an interesting little thread. Thanks for starting this. Perhaps with the help of diagrams etc, I would be obliged, if anyone can tell me, how a heart is usually removed from a body? You see, there seems to me a small, tiny, insignificant little problem removing Mary Kelly's heart... It is impossible to do it (as far as I am aware) through the chest without breaking the ribs, which isn't mentioned in the Kelly inquest papers. Intercostal muscles between the ribs being ripped will not enable a person to remove the heart. Having talked to a medical aquaintance of mine, he assures me that heart removal is almost certainly done through the chest area.
However, he also said
"of course, that if one was to remove a heart from under the ribcage, then of course it is possible, by removing the liver and other material first. But then one has the problems of light and sight, and the length of the knife being used."

Now that's what I would call working blind...especially without anatomical knowledge. I welcome any diagram to explain these thoughts.

best wishes

Phil
Hello Phil. I would think it was done from underneath. Watching my brother extract a deer heart one time I noticed he located the heart and gave a tug. This he said allowed him to gage where the connections were that were holding the heart in place and he rather quickly and blindly inserted his knife, cut the offending vessels and tugged. Total elapsed time from incision to heart extraction about 4 minutes on a dead animal. My brother, like myself, is not a particularly bright bulb. Dave
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Old 09-13-2010, 02:39 AM
Phil Carter Phil Carter is offline
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Hello Dave,

Thank you for this. Of course, I presume that the space for the deer disembowellment was unlimited, the light was good and that he (your brother) knew what he was looking for?
I have never done such a thing, so am not knowledgable enough to be able to hazard a guess. Many thanks

best wishes

Phil
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Old 09-13-2010, 03:05 AM
protohistorian protohistorian is offline
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Hello Phil, light was fading, it was eent (sundown). He had done this before, he hunts frequently. There was no space restriction, although having seen his method I do not think one would make a hell of alot of difference. Dave
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Old 09-13-2010, 03:24 AM
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Default a case on interpretations

Below are two diagrams. Dr. Llewellyn describes a 4 inch (approx) incision on Mrs. Nichol's neck. The diagram with a black line around the edge represents 4 inches along the circumference of the neck. You can plainly see an incision of this variety would not sever the neck structures on both sides of the neck as Dr. Llewellyn indicates was the case. Image two is the cross section with a transecting line of the image removed. This line is 3 and 5/16s of an inch long. Dave
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Last edited by protohistorian : 09-13-2010 at 03:28 AM. Reason: I was unclear, like mud and republican economics
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Old 09-13-2010, 03:38 AM
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Default The Uterus

I have a feeling this might be helpful for those handicapped by testicles, awkward social skills, and those who could never manage to get a glimpse of a female action figure without her pants on. It might also be useful to women who do not possess x ray vision. Dave
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Old 09-13-2010, 03:55 AM
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Default against a sight driven offender

Here is a pair of images that to my mind argue against the person who plundered Ms. Eddowes being driven by sight in his work. One image shows a human abdomen laid open, the complexity of forms is staggering. The other image shows vascularization in the area of the uterus. This image demonstrates the quantity of connective tissue and blood vessels involved. Dave
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Old 09-13-2010, 05:05 AM
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That measurement should have been 4 and 5/16 on the Nichols transection. If we allow for the stature of victorians being smaller than present, I think we can say this is the correct wound type. Dave
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Last edited by protohistorian : 09-13-2010 at 05:07 AM. Reason: xpellink
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Old 09-13-2010, 05:15 AM
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Default neck vascularization

Blood vessels within the neck. Dave
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Old 09-13-2010, 05:19 AM
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Default structure of the abdomen

The abdominal wall, medical illustration and ct scan. Dave
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Old 09-13-2010, 05:25 AM
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Default the peritoneum (think Emma Smith)

This illustration gives you an idea of placement and function. Dave
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