Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Main
   

Introduction
Victims
Suspects
Witnesses
Ripper Letters
Police Officials
Official Documents
Press Reports
Victorian London
Message Boards
Ripper Media
Authors
Dissertations
Timelines
Games & Diversions
Photo Archive
Ripper Wiki
Casebook Examiner
Ripper Podcast
About the Casebook

Most Recent Posts:
Martha Tabram: Probibility of Martha Tabram Being a JtR Victim - by Sam Flynn 12 minutes ago.
Motive, Method and Madness: Same motive = same killer - by Sam Flynn 31 minutes ago.
Martha Tabram: Probibility of Martha Tabram Being a JtR Victim - by Michael W Richards 42 minutes ago.
Maybrick, James: 25 YEARS OF THE DIARY OF JACK THE RIPPER: THE TRUE FACTS by Robert Smith - by Admin 1 hour and 2 minutes ago.
Non-Ripper Books by Ripper Authors: Mob Town by John Bennett - by Herlock Sholmes 3 hours ago.
General Suspect Discussion: Was Jack caught by London underworld? - by Trevor Marriott 5 hours ago.

Most Popular Threads:
Motive, Method and Madness: Same motive = same killer - (46 posts)
Maybrick, James: 25 YEARS OF THE DIARY OF JACK THE RIPPER: THE TRUE FACTS by Robert Smith - (20 posts)
Martha Tabram: Probibility of Martha Tabram Being a JtR Victim - (9 posts)
General Suspect Discussion: Was Jack caught by London underworld? - (5 posts)
Non-Ripper Books by Ripper Authors: Mob Town by John Bennett - (3 posts)
General Discussion: Jack's early inspiration? - (2 posts)

Wiki Updates:
Robert Sagar
Edit: Chris
May 9, 2015, 12:32 am
Online newspaper archives
Edit: Chris
Nov 26, 2014, 10:25 am
Joseph Lawende
Edit: Chris
Mar 9, 2014, 10:12 am
Miscellaneous research resources
Edit: Chris
Feb 13, 2014, 9:28 am
Charles Cross
Edit: John Bennett
Sep 4, 2013, 8:20 pm

Most Recent Blogs:
Mike Covell: A DECADE IN THE MAKING.
February 19, 2016, 11:12 am.
Chris George: RipperCon in Baltimore, April 8-10, 2016
February 10, 2016, 2:55 pm.
Mike Covell: Hull Prison Visit
October 10, 2015, 8:04 am.
Mike Covell: NEW ADVENTURES IN RESEARCH
August 9, 2015, 3:10 am.
Mike Covell: UPDDATES FOR THE PAST 11 MONTHS
November 14, 2014, 10:02 am.
Mike Covell: Mike’s Book Releases
March 17, 2014, 3:18 am.

Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Motive, Method and Madness

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #21  
Old 10-11-2017, 04:13 AM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: The West Midlands
Posts: 920
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
The fact that this idea was actually in swing - although instead favouring an orangutan - says a lot about the contemporary overall understanding of the kind of killer we are dealing with.
So, not a baboon then?
__________________
Regards

Herlock






"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact!"
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 10-11-2017, 04:31 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 15,406
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
So, not a baboon then?
Nope. Sorry about that.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 10-11-2017, 04:34 AM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: The West Midlands
Posts: 920
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
Nope. Sorry about that.
Back to the drawing board for me then
__________________
Regards

Herlock






"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact!"
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 10-11-2017, 04:53 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 15,406
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
Back to the drawing board for me then
Ever considered chimps? They are very territorial and intelligent creatures, supposedly four times as strong as humans. And they have a nasty tendency to tear their enemies to shreds.

Just saying.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 10-11-2017, 06:42 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 5,061
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
Back to the drawing board for me then
good guess though. even Poe thought it was possible. hehe
__________________
"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 10-11-2017, 07:31 AM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: The West Midlands
Posts: 920
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
Ever considered chimps? They are very territorial and intelligent creatures, supposedly four times as strong as humans. And they have a nasty tendency to tear their enemies to shreds.

Just saying.
I know. I remember a TV show a few years ago that catalogued some horrendous injuries committed by chimps.

Cheetah always looked so friendly
__________________
Regards

Herlock






"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact!"
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 10-11-2017, 08:53 AM
Michael W Richards Michael W Richards is offline
Assistant Commissioner
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,059
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
Let me just say from the outset that there never was any Ruth Jenkins - she is a figment of my over-excited fantasy, designed to enable us to discuss the perceived differences between the Ripper and the Torso killer.

So here goes!

Ruth Jenkins was a typical East End woman, 36 years old, married and living in a small flat with her husband and two young boys in Mile End Road. On the night of October 14, 1888, she quarelled with her husband, and he threw her out at 1.30 AM. Mrs Jenkins then set off for a friends lodgings in Edward Street (having said this to her husband as she left), but she never made it there. She was instead found at around 2 AM in a doorway in nearby Ducket Street, horribly murdered and disfigured.

She had had her abdomen ripped open from ribcage to pubes, and the intestines had been cut loose and thrown to the side. The abdominal wall had been cut largely away in three panes, flung beside the body in a pool of blood. After this, the assailant had cut out her uterus, which was found under her neck. The liver had also been cut out and was nowhere to be seen - apparently, the killer had run off with it. The immediate cause of death was a fierce cut to the neck, leaving a gaping wound - in effect, all of the major vessels had been severed by the cut, that had nearly taken the poor woman´s head off. The face had suffered damage too, the nosetip, the ears and the flesh on the forehead having been cut away and left by the poor creatures side.

Not a sound had been heard of the deed by the people living in Ducket Street, although there were those who professed to having slept with their windows open. There were no marks of any kind of the body apart from the cuts and a few bruises around the chin of the victim. The mystery is therefore a total one.
When you bait the hook as you did Fisherman, by using details from individual murders and culling them under one mans work, its difficult to play along. You've cited details from individual murders, not just the details from a murder we can safely say was committed by the character who was known as The Ripper, Annie Chapmans. Yes the flaps are there, and the intestines over the shoulder, and the missing organs...but in that murder there was no facial marking...only in Kate and Marys murders, no organs placed under the head...as in Mary's murder, and no mention of items placed about the body or the fact that this Ripper fellow cuts throats deeply twice.


So the above example wouldn't lead a true investigator to anyone, let alone 2 characters who engaged in very different activities.

If Ruth Jenkins murder had the attributes of Annie Chapmans murder, then you have a storyline. Throwing acts into the mix that we cannot say with any certainty represent what we had learned about the killer to that point in time doesn't help.

On this point Ill say that for anyone to compare The Torso Acts with the Rippers act the samples should be from any Torso murder and Annie Chapmans murder, the ONLY one of the Five that is certainly a murder that virtually everyone attributes to this Ripper fellow.
__________________
Michael Richards
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 10-11-2017, 10:18 AM
007 007 is offline
Cadet
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 37
Default Monkey Business

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
The fact that this idea was actually in swing - although instead favouring an orangutan - says a lot about the contemporary overall understanding of the kind of killer we are dealing with.
Babboon/orangutan... in swing...

Bwahahahaha!! That's awesome, Christer!
__________________
Bond. Greg Bond
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 10-11-2017, 02:46 PM
drstrange169 drstrange169 is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 952
Default

>>You forgot to explain how you reached your stance.<<

Pretty much as Zena has already described.
__________________
dustymiller
aka drstrange


"Whenever an expert says something that bolsters the Lechmere theory, it is not my task to disprove him ..."
Fisherman
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 10-11-2017, 09:55 PM
Ginger Ginger is offline
Detective
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 454
Default

Never the Torso Killer. Either the Ripper, or a copycat. The Torso Killer had some private place where he cut his victims up. The Ripper was comfortable doing that in a doorway, or an ill-lit corner of a yard.
__________________
- Ginger
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:23 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.