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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Motive, Method and Madness

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  #11  
Old 07-25-2017, 06:41 AM
Pierre Pierre is offline
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[quote=Elamarna;423182]

Quote:
In this hypothesis he writes the GSG because of the failure in Berner street ?
Hi Steve,

That is the hypothesis for L in this case. And the motive of Lechmere for taking the apron with him and leaving it in Goulston Street as evicence was his domineering mother.

Quote:
The GSG is written to show a link between Stride and Eddowes, much as proposed by Tom Wescott .
Rather, the link was between Lechmere and the murders. He wrote it to confirm that he was the killer.

Quote:
The GSG in this case would not exist unless the Stride killing was a failure, if it has wider meaning, surely he would have written it anyway and had chalk on him.
The hypothesis about the time gap indicates he had something to do. There was writing and therefore he needed chalk. That is all we know now. Therefore this knowledge should be used for an explanatory hypothesis.

Quote:
There is so a serious issue with Lechmere having time to get home to Doveton Street and Back again before the GSG IS found. The timing is too tight.
Are you sure about this, and if so, why?

Quote:
If he planned for the end of October what happened? There is nothing to suggest why this would have been his plan or why it did not occur.
I believe you misunderstood me. The planning was done by L in October, and L killed on 9th November according to the plan.

Quote:
And of course we have no data I am aware of to say he had a domineering wife.

Steve
You are right, Steve. I meant to say domineering mother. It is according to the theory of Fisherman that L:s mother was domineering, since she was married more than once.

Cheers, Pierre

Last edited by Pierre : 07-25-2017 at 06:44 AM.
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  #12  
Old 07-25-2017, 07:33 AM
Elamarna Elamarna is offline
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[quote=Pierre;423190]
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Originally Posted by Elamarna View Post

Are you sure about this, and if so, why?
I do not say impossibly just too tight.

Reasoning . Using my timings we can see that the return trip will take between just over 50 minutes and just over the hour.
I assume he will not run or walk too quickly so as to avoid raising concerns in an area now swamped with police from both forces.

He must dispose of his trophies at home, clean himself or at least check he is clean, find the chalk And leave. Maybe 5 mins min in total. On his return he has to write the GSG, we NEED to allow him ensuring the "cost is clear" he as to deposit the apron and be out of sight before anyone appears another 5 min min I suggest.

Now we have a gap of about 75 minutes from the murder until the apron is found, assuming that the apron was not just missed at 2.20.
At the bottom end of the range I give in The Bucks Row Project, he could just about do it but it is very tight only a few minutes to play with.

If he is at the slower end of the range ( which is more probably if he does not want to attract any attention, it is not possible.
Hence I say just too tight.

Steve

Last edited by Elamarna : 07-25-2017 at 07:42 AM.
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  #13  
Old 07-25-2017, 07:48 AM
Elamarna Elamarna is offline
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[quote=Pierre;423190]
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Originally Posted by Elamarna View Post

You are right, Steve. I meant to say domineering mother. It is according to the theory of Fisherman that L:s mother was domineering, since she was married more than once.

Cheers, Pierre
I think the same applies however be it wife or mother. I am aware of no sources which say his mother was domineering are you?

It's just another of those suggestions made over the Years which is possible but not backed by anything tangible.

Steve
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  #14  
Old 07-25-2017, 11:04 AM
Pierre Pierre is offline
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[quote=Elamarna;423198]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post

I do not say impossibly just too tight.

Reasoning . Using my timings we can see that the return trip will take between just over 50 minutes and just over the hour.
I assume he will not run or walk too quickly so as to avoid raising concerns in an area now swamped with police from both forces.

He must dispose of his trophies at home, clean himself or at least check he is clean, find the chalk And leave. Maybe 5 mins min in total. On his return he has to write the GSG, we NEED to allow him ensuring the "cost is clear" he as to deposit the apron and be out of sight before anyone appears another 5 min min I suggest.

Now we have a gap of about 75 minutes from the murder until the apron is found, assuming that the apron was not just missed at 2.20.
At the bottom end of the range I give in The Bucks Row Project, he could just about do it but it is very tight only a few minutes to play with.

If he is at the slower end of the range ( which is more probably if he does not want to attract any attention, it is not possible.
Hence I say just too tight.

Steve
Hi Steve,

Very good.

What is your estimation for the minimum and the maximum time that he would have needed to do what you describe above?

Pierre
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  #15  
Old 07-25-2017, 11:45 AM
John G John G is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
So much for the triple event
Good point!
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  #16  
Old 07-25-2017, 12:08 PM
Elamarna Elamarna is offline
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[quote=Pierre;423212]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elamarna View Post

Hi Steve,

Very good.

What is your estimation for the minimum and the maximum time that he would have needed to do what you describe above?

Pierre
Pierre

Between 60 to 75 minutes.

However having thought about this I see no obvious reason for the location of the apron. It is not on a straight route between home and Mitre square , therefore a detour is required which may extend this by a few minutes.
I would suggest that practically 70 - 75 is the most likely.

We know the Apron is not recorded as being seen at 2.20, and is seen at 2.55.
I see no way in this hypothesis that the GSG could be done before 2.45 earliest

Has I said not impossible but very tight with a great chance of being caught while writing the GSG, given that the alarm was out by that stage, and we know people were stopped and questioned nearby.
If Lechmere were heading West he could say he was on his way home, but if going West it would be more difficult.

Steve
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  #17  
Old 07-25-2017, 12:18 PM
Pierre Pierre is offline
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[quote=Elamarna;423219]
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Originally Posted by Pierre View Post

Pierre

Between 60 to 75 minutes.

However having thought about this I see no obvious reason for the location of the apron. It is not on a straight route between home and Mitre square , therefore a detour is required which may extend this by a few minutes.
I would suggest that practically 70 - 75 is the most likely.

We know the Apron is not recorded as being seen at 2.20, and is seen at 2.55.
I see no way in this hypothesis that the GSG could be done before 2.45 earliest

Has I said not impossible but very tight with a great chance of being caught while writing the GSG, given that the alarm was out by that stage, and we know people were stopped and questioned nearby.
If Lechmere were heading West he could say he was on his way home, but if going West it would be more difficult.

Steve

Hi Steve,

Why would a straight route have mattered do you think?

Pierre
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  #18  
Old 07-25-2017, 12:41 PM
Elamarna Elamarna is offline
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[quote=Pierre;423220]
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Originally Posted by Elamarna View Post


Hi Steve,

Why would a straight route have mattered do you think?

Pierre
It is of course faster to go by the most direct route. But one may chose a less direct one if one is seeking to avoid attention, however that will certainly add time to the walk.
Of course on the way to home he may indeed go via Goulston street to get to the quickest route;
And while such may be used to explain the location, if the Apron is left on the way out of the area, that is not the suggestion.

I see no reason for it on way back unless the location itself as some particular relevance to the case. Other than just being the location it is left.

Any location where he could write the message would do, there was no need to leave it only a few minutes from the murder site. Yet of course under a different jurisdiction to the murder site itself.
Given the distribution of the murder sites the location chosen seems an odd one, if it is not on ones way out of the area or close to a secure location where the killer could stay.
In this hypothesis of course that is not the case at all.


Steve

Last edited by Elamarna : 07-25-2017 at 12:50 PM.
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  #19  
Old 07-25-2017, 01:07 PM
Pierre Pierre is offline
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[quote=Elamarna;423199]
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Originally Posted by Pierre View Post

I think the same applies however be it wife or mother. I am aware of no sources which say his mother was domineering are you?

It's just another of those suggestions made over the Years which is possible but not backed by anything tangible.

Steve
No, there are no sources for Lechmere´s mother being domineering but Fisherman has constructed that hypothesis.

And the hypothesis about his domineering mother explains the choice of evidence placed in Goulston Street the 30th September 1888.

I don´t know why Fisherman has not been using it.

L cut the piece of apron from the rest of the apron. He symbolically cut the apron strings.

Pierre

Last edited by Pierre : 07-25-2017 at 01:10 PM.
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  #20  
Old 07-25-2017, 01:13 PM
Elamarna Elamarna is offline
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[quote=Pierre;423227]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elamarna View Post

No, there are no sources for Lechmere´s mother being domineering but Fisherman has constructed that hypothesis.

And the hypothesis about his domineering mother explains the choice of evidence placed in Goulston Street the 30th September 1888.

I don´t know why Fisherman has not been using it.

L cut the piece of apron from the rest of the apron. He symbolically cut the apron strings.

Pierre
I like that Pierre.. Apron strings!

Steve
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