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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Motive, Method and Madness

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  #531  
Old 10-12-2017, 11:20 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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[quote=Sam Flynn;432459]Who said anything about LARGE flaps? The only one who fits into that category is Mary Kelly.

You may by now have noticed that Jacksons flaps were described as large by Hebbert. So the answer to your question is that - Hebbert did.

As a thought-experiment, substitute "corpse" for "orange", and "removal of abdominal flaps" with "peeling".

No, thank you. This is not a question of oranges - or pizzas. It is a question of something very, very rare as opposed to something very, very common. I find the comparisons totally unrealistic and misleading.

How many different ways of peeling an orange are there? If you were to find two partly-peeled oranges, both of which had had some of the skin peeled off in segments with a knife, would you think that it was beyond doubt that the same person peeled them?

If you found two dead women in the same city with their abdominal walls cut away in flaps, would you say "Oh, women are killed by the millions by millions of killers in this town every year, and they all cut away the abdomen in flaps because that is how you get into a womans innards, so anybody could have done this"?

That, my friend, is what your oranges and pizzas amount to. That is how relevant your comparison is. And if you try apples or Danish pastry the next time, please be adviced that you will be equally quickly revealed.
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  #532  
Old 10-12-2017, 11:27 AM
RockySullivan RockySullivan is offline
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Nilsen did not burn the bodies in his backyard, but instead on common ground in direct proximity to his lodgings. I absolutely fail to see why Lechmere or anybody else could not have made a bonfire, and fed it with whatever they chose to. Either in his backyard or somewhere else.

The notion that it would be impossible is totally untenable. It would carry risks, but so would any discarding of body parts. Itīs anybodys choice, but burning bodies is an age-old method, employed in every civilization throughout history.
Fish, how do you fail to see? Are you blind as a goddamn bat dude? The killer was excellent at dumping parts discreetly and without being seen. The opposite of setting up a ******* bonfire.
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  #533  
Old 10-12-2017, 11:32 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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Fish, how do you fail to see? Are you blind as a goddamn bat dude? The killer was excellent at dumping parts discreetly and without being seen. The opposite of setting up a ******* bonfire.
You do not have to be that gracious and acknowledging, Rocky.

Incidentally, what we were discussing was whether the suggestion of a bonfire was plausible as an alternative for making bodies go away. That has nothing at all to do with how excellent the killer was or was not when it comes to dumping parts discreetly. We all know he chose that way to do it, but the discussion was one of alternative methods.

I like you too, by the way.
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  #534  
Old 10-12-2017, 11:36 AM
RockySullivan RockySullivan is offline
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You do not have to be that gracious and acknowledging, Rocky.

Incidentally, what we were discussing was whether the suggestion of a bonfire was plausible as an alternative for making bodies go away. That has nothing at all to do with how excellent the killer was or was not when it comes to dumping parts discreetly. We all know he chose that way to do it, but the discussion was one of alternative methods.

I like you too, by the way.
Fish, I was trying to explain it's not feasible to make a body disappear in the urban areas. You used bonfire as an example that it isn't. I thought we were talking about realistic ways to make a body disappear. It's possible to just leave the body under the bed. But it's not an efficient way to get rid of a body. So no a bonfire wouldn't work in a place like whitechapel.
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  #535  
Old 10-12-2017, 11:44 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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RockySullivan: Fish, I was trying to explain it's not feasible to make a body disappear in the urban areas.

I am aware of that. It was precisely therefore I brought up Dennis Nilsen as an example of somebody who was of another opinion - and acted upon it.

You used bonfire as an example that it isn't.

I actually listed three different ways that the torso killer COULD have used as an alternative way of disposing of his victims, all three methods being more efficient in making the body parts disappear from sight than the method the torso killer used.

I thought we were talking about realistic ways to make a body disappear, not any possible way under the sun.

A bonfire was realistic enough for Nilsen. And I assure you that many, many people have disappeared under the surface of the Thames on account of having been dumped and weighted down successfully. What you need to do is to read up on these matters; how have killers gone about disposing of their victims over the years? Did Christie feel he had to dismember and dump the bodies he wanted to get rid of? No, he placed them in the walls or dug them down. How did Fred West go about it? He dug them down. People have been placed under floorboards, under slabs of stone in the garden, under a layer of concrete in the cellar - you name it. There are many, many ways to dispose of a body that does not require you to dismember it and float it down the Thames, giving away what has transpired.

It's possible to just leave the body under the bed. But it's not an efficient way to get rid of a body.

Itīs not getting rid of a body at all. It is keeping it. Like Dahmer did in Milwaukee, for example.

And I still like you!

Last edited by Fisherman : 10-12-2017 at 11:47 AM.
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  #536  
Old 10-12-2017, 11:52 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Originally Posted by RockySullivan View Post
Fish, I was trying to explain it's not feasible to make a body disappear in the urban areas. You used bonfire as an example that it isn't. I thought we were talking about realistic ways to make a body disappear. It's possible to just leave the body under the bed. But it's not an efficient way to get rid of a body. So no a bonfire wouldn't work in a place like whitechapel.
Hi Rocky
torsoman had his own place and obviously knew how to cut up a body. If he really wanted to make the victim disappear he could have.

Just cut them up more into smaller pieces, carry them to the river and dump it in-fish food.

speaking of fires-since torso had his own place he more than likely had a fireplace. just get a big fire going and burn them.
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  #537  
Old 10-12-2017, 11:54 AM
RockySullivan RockySullivan is offline
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The Ripper was smart, if he lived anywhere like Whitechapel he wouldn't a bonfire, wouldn't weight down. Let's point out one thing about Dennis Nilsen ok, he got caught.

He wouldn't burn bodies and wouldn't anchor the parts down because he was good at disposal.
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  #538  
Old 10-12-2017, 11:57 AM
RockySullivan RockySullivan is offline
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Hi Rocky
torsoman had his own place and obviously knew how to cut up a body. If he really wanted to make the victim disappear he could have.

Just cut them up more into smaller pieces, carry them to the river and dump it in-fish food.

speaking of fires-since torso had his own place he more than likely had a fireplace. just get a big fire going and burn them.
I really think people don't get how hard it is to make a body disappear. Fish food is another not efficient option. Clearly there was a limited time the torso ripper could keep the victims as they were quickly dismembered and disposed of before they could smell too strongly.
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  #539  
Old 10-12-2017, 11:59 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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The Ripper was smart, if he lived anywhere like Whitechapel he wouldn't a bonfire, wouldn't weight down. Let's point out one thing about Dennis Nilsen ok, he got caught.

He wouldn't burn bodies and wouldn't anchor the parts down because he was good at disposal.
He was much better at disposal than at hiding what he had done, though.

And Nilsen did not get caught on account of the bonfire that turned six people to cinder and ash - he got caught when clogging up the toilet in his house.
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  #540  
Old 10-12-2017, 12:01 PM
RockySullivan RockySullivan is offline
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There are many, many ways to dispose of a body that does not require you to dismember it and float it down the Thames, giving away what has transpired.

Killed used smart methods and didn't get caught unlike the bad example you gave. Ripper victims were killed to minimize time spent with dead body and eliminate risk associated with storing, dismemberment and disposal. NOT for some stupid public shock art project
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