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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Motive, Method and Madness

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  #241  
Old 08-30-2017, 08:06 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is online now
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Originally Posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
I've mentioned this before but if the message was written by Jack (and no we can't know either way) could he have written it directly after leaving Berner Street? Maybe he stopped for a fag to try and calm down after being interrupted in his work? Maybe he got even more angry? Maybe he wrote the message in anger? Maybe later he felt angry that his 'message' might go unnoticed so he decided to leave the cloth as a 'signpost'? Maybe this explains the time gap? Depositing the cloth was an after thought?

Sorry about the 'maybe' overload there chaps
hi HS.
would the walk from Berner street to goulston street and then back in time to mitre square fit?

also, there was an anon sighting of a man in a peaked cap wiping his hands and acting suspiciously in church st. roughly in the time period. I think there is a good possibility this was the ripper en route from berner street so theres that in the mix too.
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"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

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  #242  
Old 08-30-2017, 09:01 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is online now
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PS - the 'already there' interpretation, may also need to overturn Long & Halse
I'm glad you said "may need to", as there's no guarantee either would have noticed it. Especially not Halse, who wasn't trudging along on his beat, and I daresay had his mind on other things when he passed through Goulston Street. The actual beat-bobby, Long, only noticed the graffiti after he'd found the apron, and was examining the doorway for bloodstains etc.
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  #243  
Old 08-30-2017, 12:58 PM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
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Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
hi HS.
would the walk from Berner street to goulston street and then back in time to mitre square fit?

also, there was an anon sighting of a man in a peaked cap wiping his hands and acting suspiciously in church st. roughly in the time period. I think there is a good possibility this was the ripper en route from berner street so theres that in the mix too.
I'm utterly useless with geography Abby and have no sense of direction. You would think that after 30 years of interest in the case I'd have the map of the area ingrained on my brain but no. I've just checked the NLS map (which is great) but I still find I'm moving it around and losing my place. I have an ordinance map but I'm not at home. Whereabouts is Church Street?

I'm in London from 19th Sept to 30th so I might walk the area. I'm doing a 'walk' but as you know they avoid most of the sites.
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  #244  
Old 08-30-2017, 01:11 PM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is online now
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Originally Posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
I'm utterly useless with geography Abby and have no sense of direction. You would think that after 30 years of interest in the case I'd have the map of the area ingrained on my brain but no. I've just checked the NLS map (which is great) but I still find I'm moving it around and losing my place. I have an ordinance map but I'm not at home. Whereabouts is Church Street?

Herlock,

I believe the sighting was in Church Lane, which runs between Commercial Road and Whitechapel High Street close to where they meet up.
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  #245  
Old 08-30-2017, 01:23 PM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
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Cheers Joshua, I found it but with the map I'm using I can't get a sense of proximity. I need to look on the ordinance map when I'm home on Friday.
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  #246  
Old 08-30-2017, 01:45 PM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is online now
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Originally Posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
Cheers Joshua, I found it but with the map I'm using I can't get a sense of proximity. I need to look on the ordinance map when I'm home on Friday.
It's not on the most direct route, but might have been taken if the killer wanted to stay off the (presumably) busier main roads.
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  #247  
Old 08-30-2017, 04:28 PM
cnr cnr is offline
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Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
I'm glad you said "may need to", as there's no guarantee either would have noticed it. Especially not Halse, who wasn't trudging along on his beat, and I daresay had his mind on other things when he passed through Goulston Street. The actual beat-bobby, Long, only noticed the graffiti after he'd found the apron, and was examining the doorway for bloodstains etc.
Yes, agree, Sam (Noswaith dda). It's very interesting. And Halse did say, "I did not notice anything then", which allows for a certain degree of ambiguity, ie (at a stretch?) the possibility that he simply missed it.

Long seems less ambiguous when speaking spontaneously on his own terms. Long and Halse taken together, however, seems to give some corroboration to their individual contributions.

That the police took the extraordinary step of expunging the graffito - and taken in tandem with their on-the-record opinions - speaks to some degree about their view that it was authentic.

Also worth considering, is the possibility that as professional men of that locale (London) and at that moment in time, they may well have perceived something about the graffito, which has simply not come down to us by way of the official record, and that as burghers of the 21st century we are less sensitive to. I'm not saying it's the be all and end all, just something worth allowing for, when looking at the mix of reasons and issues that crop-up here.

Irrespective, the police officials seemed pretty convinced - I am not necessarily taken by that, in and of itself, but it shouldn't be ignored, either.

Regards, Stephen.

Last edited by cnr : 08-30-2017 at 04:44 PM.
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  #248  
Old 08-30-2017, 09:33 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is online now
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Originally Posted by cnr View Post
Yes, agree, Sam (Noswaith dda). It's very interesting. And Halse did say, "I did not notice anything then", which allows for a certain degree of ambiguity, ie (at a stretch?) the possibility that he simply missed it.

Long seems less ambiguous when speaking spontaneously on his own terms. Long and Halse taken together, however, seems to give some corroboration to their individual contributions.

That the police took the extraordinary step of expunging the graffito - and taken in tandem with their on-the-record opinions - speaks to some degree about their view that it was authentic.

Also worth considering, is the possibility that as professional men of that locale (London) and at that moment in time, they may well have perceived something about the graffito, which has simply not come down to us by way of the official record, and that as burghers of the 21st century we are less sensitive to. I'm not saying it's the be all and end all, just something worth allowing for, when looking at the mix of reasons and issues that crop-up here.

Irrespective, the police officials seemed pretty convinced - I am not necessarily taken by that, in and of itself, but it shouldn't be ignored, either.

Regards, Stephen.
I couldn't agree more. Well,said.
__________________
"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
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