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  #21  
Old 09-15-2017, 05:46 AM
Robert Robert is offline
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A couple of questions : when the world ends, where will it be Sept 23rd? If it's 00.01 Sept 23rd in Australia then the end may be sooner than we think.

Also, what is meant by 'the world?' It doesn't seem fair that some bloke in Alpha Centauri might be sitting down to his breakfast fry-up and bam! - all because of some divine hissy fit concerning the earth.
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  #22  
Old 09-15-2017, 06:05 AM
Pcdunn Pcdunn is offline
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Interesting turn this has taken.

I have a Roman Catholic background, baptized, six years in a parish school, all of that. I am not very observant now, but still prefer this version of Christianity to any other. I've read the atheists' books, can't quite agree with them, but they are entitled to their opinion.

I agree with Steady about God having no place in religion. Remember that quote from the New Testament about "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, and unto God that which is God's"?-- right there it says let's keep them separate.

Yesterday I read that some people are very upset that Target, a large chain of stores that sells everything, has announced that their transgender staff and guests can use whichever bathroom they want to. The upset people, citing some sort of moral authority, are promising to take their business elsewhere! Really? As if God cares about signs on bathroom/restroom/public toilet doors! And as if these folks can declare they know God's opinion.

Target, of courses, only cares about money, I suppose... Oops, there I go, presuming to speak for an institution I know nothing about. My bad.
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Von Konigswald: Jack the Ripper plays shuffleboard. -- Happy Birthday, Wanda June by Kurt Vonnegut, c.1970.
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  #23  
Old 09-15-2017, 06:06 AM
c.d. c.d. is offline
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Hitchens also correctly points out that at least when the God of the Old Testament was done messing with you and you were dead that was it. But according to the New Testament when you die "that's when the fun begins" as Hitch put it.

c.d.
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  #24  
Old 09-15-2017, 06:09 AM
c.d. c.d. is offline
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"The upset people, citing some sort of moral authority, are promising to take their business elsewhere!"

Hello Pat,

As Hitchens often said it is the people claiming to know God's will that you have to be afraid of.

c.d.
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  #25  
Old 09-15-2017, 06:15 AM
Pcdunn Pcdunn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c.d. View Post
Hitchens also correctly points out that at least when the God of the Old Testament was done messing with you and you were dead that was it. But according to the New Testament when you die "that's when the fun begins" as Hitch put it.

c.d.
That's just due to the Jews not believing in an afterlife, I think, while Christians have the whole Eternal Life concept to deal with.

There's a very funny comedy on TV now called "The Good Place", which satirizes the idea of Heaven and who might end up there.

Also, Mark Twain, that charming rogue who gave up on God after a series of personal tragedies, wrote the story "Extract from Captain Stormfield's Visit to Heaven" which suggests there are lots of different heavens, depending on which planet you hail from, of course.
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Last edited by Pcdunn : 09-15-2017 at 06:16 AM. Reason: Typo
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  #26  
Old 09-15-2017, 06:16 AM
Ally Ally is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c.d. View Post
Hitchens also correctly points out that at least when the God of the Old Testament was done messing with you and you were dead that was it. But according to the New Testament when you die "that's when the fun begins" as Hitch put it.

c.d.
I have a friend who is a fundamentalist, believes the Bible is literal truth, etc and every once in a while she goes on a covert the heathen discussion with me and when I point out that even if I had indisputable proof that her god existed, I still wouldn't worship him because he's an utter *******, she is like ..god is love. And I respond ..I'm a hateful witch and even I don't have the arrogance to torture people for eternity for failing to worship me. He's like the worst controlling, abusive boyfriend ever... I am not going to give you proof that I exist but if you don't worship me anyway, I will burn you eternally. Because...that's why. Dick.
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  #27  
Old 09-15-2017, 06:19 AM
c.d. c.d. is offline
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"Unless there is a different usage in the US, atheism is the denial of the existence of a deity, while agnosticism is "I don't know whether or not." Randi (of whom I'm an admirer) seems to be saying atheist when he should say agnostic."

Hello Robert,

The two definitions are often murky depending on who is using them. There is apparently hard atheism, soft atheism and even agnostic atheism. I think there are probably very few hard atheists who say definitively that there is no God. The better definition of atheist (which Randi uses) I think is to say that I have never seen convincing evidence which would lead me to believe in the existence of a god or gods. Randi as well as Dawkins and Hitchens have acknowledged the possibility of the existence of a god or gods in the same way that pink unicorns might exist somewhere in the universe. That still makes them atheists.

c.d.
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  #28  
Old 09-15-2017, 06:23 AM
c.d. c.d. is offline
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Hello Pat,

Just to be clear when Hitchens said "that's when the fun begins" he was referring to eternal torment in hell.

c.d.
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  #29  
Old 09-15-2017, 06:24 AM
Ally Ally is offline
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I have always been of the waffly am I an agnostic or atheist because of that distinction. None of the current gods on Earth pass the sniff test so I definitively don't believe in any I've heard of so far but then to the ancient Greeks the "gods" were just basically super powerful beings, not this perfect, omniscient, omnipotent being that deism has become and which is also a lot more easy to knock down as not being real.
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  #30  
Old 09-15-2017, 06:27 AM
Robert Robert is offline
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Hi CD

Yes, it's a murky distinction. I have no evidence that god either exists or doesn't exist so I prefer to call myself an agnostic. Of course, technically there are religious people who acknowledge that they have no evidence for god's existence and instead believe on faith. The difference between agnostics and them would be one of belief.
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