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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Levy, Jacob

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  #161  
Old 05-17-2016, 02:05 PM
Errata Errata is offline
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Not really sure what to say Errata - can I say 10% he had syphilis, no. but taken from his medical notes and his actions, then add in the opinion of the Doctors of the time i'm not really sure there is much doubt.

Just to even things out as I do feel we are normally at loggerheads, this is one thing me and my dad disagree on in all our research. Dad (Jimi) believes Jacob had syphilis AND something else that increased his symptoms/mania.
At least it's friendly loggerheads

And there are a lot of things that can make mental illness worse, there are even things that make bacterial infections worse. It's an interesting case because to my understanding, syphilis is a lot like clockwork in its predictability of most of the progression, and Levy sort of skews off a bit.

I just find it interesting.
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  #162  
Old 05-17-2016, 02:15 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Hi Abby

Yes they were definitely cousins. We found that Jacob and Joseph were first cousins.

If you take Jacob's father, Joseph Levy and Joseph Hyam Levy's father, Hyam Levy you find they are brothers, both having the same parents - Isaac and Sarah Levy.

Have you read the other thread Jacob the Ripper, it is in the General suspect thread. That has a lot of info on Jacob and his family we've done over the years, although feel free to ask anything here if you prefer.
Wow-Ok. well that's impressive. I thought the connection was tenous at best-but it seems you guys have nailed it down though.

so he does have something that ties him to the case-much more solid suspect IMHO now!

I will certainly check out the other thread, but if you have the time could you just give me us a quick bullet type nutshell of the main things that point to him being the ripper.

I'll start:

-His cousin was one of Lawendes companions on the night of the sighting, and if recognized may have been the reason for Levy's reluctance to talk about it.

-
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  #163  
Old 05-17-2016, 02:33 PM
tji tji is offline
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At least it's friendly loggerheads

And there are a lot of things that can make mental illness worse, there are even things that make bacterial infections worse. It's an interesting case because to my understanding, syphilis is a lot like clockwork in its predictability of most of the progression, and Levy sort of skews off a bit.

I just find it interesting.
Oops obviously that 10% should have read 100% sorry


I personally just believe that he does fit into the acceptable parameters of syphilis and especially the final '5 year stage.'

That's not to say I'm saying i'm right and you're wrong, just that my opinion is different.
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  #164  
Old 05-17-2016, 02:47 PM
tji tji is offline
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Wow-Ok. well that's impressive. I thought the connection was tenous at best-but it seems you guys have nailed it down though.
In Mark Kings dissertation he does point out the names and indicates how interesting it woudl be if they could be proved to be family but I don't believe he ever actually got that far. Luckily for us the internet now allows us a lot more access to records a lot easier and managed to find the link.


Quote:
so he does have something that ties him to the case-much more solid suspect IMHO now!


Quote:
I will certainly check out the other thread, but if you have the time could you just give me us a quick bullet type nutshell of the main things that point to him being the ripper.

I'll start:

-His cousin was one of Lawendes companions on the night of the sighting, and if recognized may have been the reason for Levy's reluctance to talk about it.
He was a butcher - giving him access to knives and ways to dispose of bloody garment etc and also of course anatomical knowledge (to a degree)

He lived in the area all his life and must have known all the alleyways etc.

Professor Canter stated that through Geographical profiling puts the killer in Middlesex Street the epicentre for the killings......this is where Jacob lived in 1888.

He died of syphilis.

He died in an asylum in 1891.

Jacobs mother died in May of 1888.

His brother committed suicide when Jacob was 17 by hanging himself in their bedroom. All indicators are Jacob found him there.

These are jut a few
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  #165  
Old 05-23-2016, 07:06 PM
dantheman dantheman is offline
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Hi All
Hi JG76
If I may.....
Of course i think Jacob is a strong suspect, the only major thing against him being no.1 is that he is not mentioned in any police report that we know of.
As myself and Tj stated-:
Jacob was the right height stated by his cousin, the witness Joseph Hyam Levy.
He wandered aimlessly at night
He had the necessary knife skills.
Jacobs death certificate stated that he died from syphillis, probably contracted from prostitutes.
he had a traumatic upbringing, probably being involved in cutting up dead animals from a young age.
Jacob discovered his elder brothers body hanging in his bedroom at the age of 19.
He was jailed in 1886, were he attempted suicide.
He lost the respect of his Jewish traders.
Looking at his medical reports it is easy to deduce that Jacob was schizophrenic.
Jacobs mother, Caroline, died inMay 1888, a common stressor.

You also mention about Jacobs children being possibly disfigured. Well within his intake file (A/H10/2/11/438) to brentwood asylum in 1886 it seems he cannot remember the name of his youngest child. Doesn't seem to be a lot of attachment there.

Keep Well
Jimi
I agree for the most part. However, Levy not being mentioned by the police should hold little weight in regards to him being a "person of interest". I mean Dennis Raider wasn't mentioned or included in any police reports until he was caught.
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  #166  
Old 05-24-2016, 08:59 AM
Harry D Harry D is offline
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I agree for the most part. However, Levy not being mentioned by the police should hold little weight in regards to him being a "person of interest". I mean Dennis Raider wasn't mentioned or included in any police reports until he was caught.
Exactly, that's no barometer of a credible suspect or not. Macnaghten named Ostrog and he was most decidedly not the Ripper.
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  #167  
Old 05-25-2016, 05:30 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Originally Posted by dantheman View Post
I agree for the most part. However, Levy not being mentioned by the police should hold little weight in regards to him being a "person of interest". I mean Dennis Raider wasn't mentioned or included in any police reports until he was caught.
agree for the most part. however, I think there something to be said for police suspicion, except not so much for the higher ups and there theories later on-ie. swanson, Anderson and MM.

My previous problem is that nothing really ties Levy to the case, except for being the cousin of one of the witnesses-which is at least something.
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quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

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  #168  
Old 05-25-2016, 10:44 AM
Errata Errata is offline
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Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
agree for the most part. however, I think there something to be said for police suspicion, except not so much for the higher ups and there theories later on-ie. swanson, Anderson and MM.

My previous problem is that nothing really ties Levy to the case, except for being the cousin of one of the witnesses-which is at least something.
I get that finding someone with an apparent clear motive can trump an actual tie to the case. I mean, thousands of people in London had some tie they could tell stories about. "My cousin saw..." "The street I take for work.." "My neighbor the policeman..." none of who make it into records. But a tie exists. So that doesn't bother me so much as long as we aren't talking about a Van Gogh type situation.

Personally I think if Levy had Neurosyphillis that bad, he would have terrible shakes. It's just part of the disease. I think that rules him out, as TJI and I have discussed before. But thats just my objection based on admittedly not his specific case. And I don't think the motive fits very well, and that is based on his specific case, but admittedly its a response to an argument TJI has never made. Other people make it, but that's different. Any "it wasn't neurosyphilis" is more an intellectual exercise rather than a real argument. I think the argument could be made, but that certainly doesn't clear him of being the killer.

Which all is to say that while I don' think he did it, for several reasons, I think he is a good suspect. Which is one of the reasons I sort of butt in now and again. Any good suspect needs someone to defend them in some small way. I'm a little protective of mentally ill suspects, so from time to time I'll at least butt heads just to at least make sure that expectations are realistic. Which I don't do for ridiculous suspects.

See T? My opposition is a tribute to your work
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  #169  
Old 11-30-2016, 10:30 AM
dantheman dantheman is offline
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It is however a myth that children with congenital syphilis have any specific physical deformity. A myth played on by the video game Sherlock Holmes vs. Jack the Ripper.

Not a myth at all, numerous sources that I've checked say the deformity is real. Congenital syphilis can cause bone deformity, incisor teeth, saddle nose (collapse of bony part of nose), frontal bossing (prominence of brow bridge), and Protruding mandible just to name a few. Here's a few sources.

http://www.cdc.gov/std/syphilis/stdf...l-syphilis.htm

https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/001344.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congenital_syphilis
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