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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Witnesses

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  #1  
Old 02-18-2008, 09:56 AM
Jdombrowski89 Jdombrowski89 is offline
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Default The Pipe Man/ Israel Schwartz

I know that there was an execellent thread on the previous forum which included a newspaper article involving Israel Schwartz and was wondering if there was any possible way of salvaging it or restarting a new thread on this? I can't seem to remember whether Dan or Tom Wescott originally posted the information.

Regards,
Justin
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  #2  
Old 04-04-2009, 01:17 PM
sam sam is offline
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I think that big shoulder man and pipe man were working together, I believe that pipeman was the one who done the cutting once the big guy had strangled the victim. I have always wondered how 1 man could carry out such a murder and not be spotted, well I believe there was a look out, also the murders are all near alleyways an ideal spot if youve got a lookout, pipeman was the lookout he was standing there smoking his pipe acting cool, could pipeman have been Joe Barnett? Think about it once they had been spotted by the witness theres not alot they could have done about it.
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Old 04-04-2009, 01:20 PM
Nothing to see Nothing to see is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sam View Post
I think that big shoulder man and pipe man were working together, I believe that pipeman was the one who done the cutting once the big guy had strangled the victim. I have always wondered how 1 man could carry out such a murder and not be spotted, well I believe there was a look out, also the murders are all near alleyways an ideal spot if youve got a lookout, pipeman was the lookout he was standing there smoking his pipe acting cool, could pipeman have been Joe Barnett? Think about it once they had been spotted by the witness theres not alot they could have done about it.
Huh? Who did the what to the who now? Too many conspiracy theories rolled into one.
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Old 04-04-2009, 01:28 PM
sam sam is offline
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Nobody would make any money out of a simple solution.
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Old 04-05-2009, 03:51 AM
Tom_Wescott Tom_Wescott is offline
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Hi Justin, I'm sorry that I'm just now seeing your post from February. Perhaps you could give me a few more details as to the article or thread in question and I'll see if I can help.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott
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Old 04-05-2009, 04:01 AM
Malcolm X Malcolm X is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sam View Post
I think that big shoulder man and pipe man were working together, I believe that pipeman was the one who done the cutting once the big guy had strangled the victim. I have always wondered how 1 man could carry out such a murder and not be spotted, well I believe there was a look out, also the murders are all near alleyways an ideal spot if youve got a lookout, pipeman was the lookout he was standing there smoking his pipe acting cool, could pipeman have been Joe Barnett? Think about it once they had been spotted by the witness theres not alot they could have done about it.
yes i've read similar too; it's about 4 years ago, in this theory Pipeman might have been R.D' Onston but i'm not going to comment on this
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Old 04-05-2009, 11:44 AM
kensei kensei is offline
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I just thought someone should chime in to argue for the standard, non-conspiracy theory, just for some balance. Schwartz came along and happened upon Jack the Ripper attacking Liz. As he was crossing the street to avoid the scene the Ripper noticed him, saw his obviously Jewish appearance and shouted "Lipski!" at him as a way of saying "Get the hell out of here," (Lipski having become a derogatory term for Jews). Pipeman was another innocent bystander who had just happened along, beginning to light his pipe at the same moment the attack began, and when he also started to walk away in the same direction as Schwartz, Schwartz thought he was chasing him so he ran.

I guess I'm a traditionalist in many ways, but this prosaic theory has always seemed the most likely to me. The principle of Occam's Razor states that in a general sense, the simplest solution is usually the correct one.
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Old 04-05-2009, 01:11 PM
DVV DVV is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sam View Post
could pipeman have been Joe Barnett?
Hi Sam,
No, Pipeman couldn't be Barnett.
If Barnett was the killer, he must have been a lone killer, with a very personal motive.

Amitiés,
David
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Old 06-05-2009, 10:05 PM
Jdombrowski89 Jdombrowski89 is offline
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Tom,

I remember it as a more recent thread from the Israel Schwartz thread in the old witnesses section of the Casebook forum right before it crashed last time around.

Basically after the initial "Lipski" Incident, to the best of my knowledge, someone standing outside followed someone in pursuit soon after, known as the pipe man. It may not be all correct as my memory on it is a bit hazy, but I know someone posted it with an interesting newspaper article that piqued my interest.

Kind Regards,
Justin
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Old 06-05-2009, 10:51 PM
Tom_Wescott Tom_Wescott is offline
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Hi Justin. Since it might be a few months before you read this and reply again (wink) I'll see if I can't answer your question. I believe the article you're referring to appeared in the Echo newspaper. The reporter attended a meeting of the Workingmen's club and spoke with William Wess who was clearly aware of the Schwartz incident. Either Wess told a jumbled account or the reporter recorded it jumbled, but it basically made Schwartz out to be the bad guy and Pipeman as the good guy. Wess knew the man's name, but claimed to have forgotten it, and said the man was not a member of the club. Of course, the police wanted to keep Schwartz's name hush, and although Schwartz probably was not a card carrying member of the club (most attendees and residents were not), he possbily lived there until the day of the murder.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott
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