50 Dead in Florida Nightclub Shooting, Worst in U.S. History

[Svensson]

It's not about defending Islam here but to take a rational take on this.

The gunman was technically a muslim. It is unclear at this point, how much Islam was factor in this. It could well be a cultural factor that made him hate the LGBT community to the point that he decided to kill. He hated minorites, that is clear. If you have a quick look at Foxnews comments on this shooting, you will see that he is not alone in having pretty vile views on minorities.

The other thing is that the Populist response of the media and Mr. Trump is most liklely counter-productive. it is also unique to a problem that other had to deal with in the past. The UK did not ban Irish at the hight of the IRA bombings. Nothern Ireland is not banning catholics. Likewise, Spain did not ban Basque people. Even Turkey are not banning Kurds.

[Limehouse]

As much as what happened in Orlando saddens me, I'll take the small leaps that we have made as a society.

For those who might not have heard of it...on June 4th 1973, another massacre took place at a gay club in New Orleans, called the UpStairs Lounge. 32 people died, either of smoke inhalation or the effects of the fire.

It was so taboo to be gay at that point that bodies went unclaimed, ministers were rebuked by their churches for holding memorials and relatives stole out of side and back entrances to avoid being associated with their dead relative.

We're a million miles from perfect, but there have been improvements. It's just so hard when someone does something like this, because it all feels futile.

Thank you so much for those words of encouragement. Of course, you are right. When I was a teenager in the 1970s, nobody ever 'came out' and I even remember a boy who had at least a dozen girlfriends and who now lives as an openly gay man. There were horrible words for gay men and women and really stupid myths - for example, I remember a male member of the family telling me that, during National Service, the army taught them how to spot a homosexual by the colour of his socks! Times have changed, and how thankful I am as the proud mother of a gay son.

Thanks once a gain.

[Limehouse]

Funny isn't it, how liberals always rush out to defend Islam after events like this. Bleeding heart liberals defending a misogynistic, homophobic, regressive ideology. Work that one out.

This was a race hate crime by an extremist claiming to represent Islam. I have many Muslim colleagues, all of whom gathered this morning to sign a book of condolences and pray for the dead, the injured and their families.

To highlight the importance of distinguishing between Islamic extremists and other Muslims, the day before this attack, ISIS planted a bomb inside a mosque in Damascus, killing dozens of Muslims.

[Robert]

Julie, not a race hate crime. A homophobic crime, or a religious hate crime, or whatever, but not a race hate crime, I think.

Actually I don't divide murders up in this way. Murder is murder, and killing someone for their sexual orientation or race or religion or gender is no worse or better than killing someone from jealousy or financial gain etc.

[jason_c]

It's not about defending Islam here but to take a rational take on this.

The gunman was technically a muslim. It is unclear at this point, how much Islam was factor in this. It could well be a cultural factor that made him hate the LGBT community to the point that he decided to kill. He hated minorites, that is clear. If you have a quick look at Foxnews comments on this shooting, you will see that he is not alone in having pretty vile views on minorities.

The other thing is that the Populist response of the media and Mr. Trump is most liklely counter-productive. it is also unique to a problem that other had to deal with in the past. The UK did not ban Irish at the hight of the IRA bombings. Nothern Ireland is not banning catholics. Likewise, Spain did not ban Basque people. Even Turkey are not banning Kurds.

Please, do not compare official or semi official doctrines of Islam and comments on the internet. It's legitimate enough for people to be opposed to homosexuality but be disgusted by this recent attack. Because one is not an sjw with "correct" views on gay marriage and transgender restroom issues does not mean one wishes to see homosexuals murdered.

As for the correct response: I dont know what the correct response is. But I do know this: if our established politicians refuse to take adequate measures the public shall lurch to the right electorally. We see this already throughout much of Europe. If you dont wish to see Trump take advantage of this issue it's best his opponents be seen to do something. What that something is I do not yet know. But they must been seen to act.

[Pcdunn]

If this report is at all true, then the current government needs to act very quickly:

http://counterjihad.com/isis-infiltrated-homeland-security-orlando-terrorist-worked-major-dhs-contractor

[Limehouse]

Julie, not a race hate crime. A homophobic crime, or a religious hate crime, or whatever, but not a race hate crime, I think.

Actually I don't divide murders up in this way. Murder is murder, and killing someone for their sexual orientation or race or religion or gender is no worse or better than killing someone from jealousy or financial gain etc.

Quite right Robert - I meant just to type 'hate crime' - can't think why I included race - just on auto pilot I think.

Yes, killing is killing - the result is the same but I do think motivation is relevant because, already there have been reports of fundamentalist Christian and Muslim preachers claiming that the killings were justified because, in their eyes, homosexuality is a sin. I cannot see anyone justifying a killing carried out for financial gain.

[Admin]

The admins of this site live in Orlando. People we know are grieving the loss of family. I've a very short fuse right now. I am pissed off, sad and ... pissed off.

We understand everyone wants the right to express their political opinions. Don't do it right now, and not on this thread. Discuss the situation, yes. Keep your politics, whatever they may be, to yourself. Just for the next little while. We are biased. We are absolutely biased and not going to treat this as any other subject.

Thank you.

[Pcdunn]

Admin, so sorry to hear that it has hit you so close. My sympathies are with you.

My housemate's sister just recently moved to Orlando, for awhile, and may make the move permanent, as her remaining family is in FL.-- so we're a bit off-kilter here, too. (Thanks, by the way, for the warning.)

[Robert]

My sympathies, Stephen and Ally.

[Beowulf]

If this report is at all true, then the current government needs to act very quickly:

http://counterjihad.com/isis-infiltr...dhs-contractor

If it is true than the government is compromised.

I'm wondering if THIS is true:

http://www.infowars.com/hillarys-state-dept-blocked-investigation-into-orlando-killers-mosque/

[caz]

It's legitimate enough for people to be opposed to homosexuality but be disgusted by this recent attack. Because one is not an sjw with "correct" views on gay marriage and transgender restroom issues does not mean one wishes to see homosexuals murdered.

I don't even know what this is supposed to mean, but please don't attempt to explain it on this thread at this time. Keep it buttoned for everyone's sake.

Love,

Caz
X

[Karl]

Times are changing for the better, though, and the world-wide response to this tragedy shows it. It was just by accident that I stumbled across another mass murder at a gay bar, in New Orleans in 1973. 32 people were killed by arson. Back then, reactions were quite different. It barely even made the news, and people even joked about the event. The international response to the Orlando shooting shows that the world is on the right track. Some countries have come further than others, but they'll all get there in the end.