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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Scene of the Crimes

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  #1  
Old 05-03-2018, 01:06 PM
SkipToTheEnd SkipToTheEnd is offline
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Default Mitre Square simulation of police beats

Has anyone tried to create a map simulation tracing the two police beats around mitre square.

If we were to know the time they would have started their beats that day.

The time it took to complete the beat (which i think ive read somewhere)

run the simulation and slow it down around the time of the murder. We could ascertain the likely positions of both policemen at the time of the murder (potentially add in the sighting by lewende)

This could show likely escape route and also hint at whether one of the police men was telling slight porkies about how far they ventured into the square

just a thought anyways...
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  #2  
Old 05-03-2018, 01:30 PM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkipToTheEnd View Post
Has anyone tried to create a map simulation tracing the two police beats around mitre square.

If we were to know the time they would have started their beats that day.

The time it took to complete the beat (which i think ive read somewhere)

run the simulation and slow it down around the time of the murder. We could ascertain the likely positions of both policemen at the time of the murder (potentially add in the sighting by lewende)

This could show likely escape route and also hint at whether one of the police men was telling slight porkies about how far they ventured into the square

just a thought anyways...
Hi Skip,

I know that hes not doing a computer simulation but Steve (Elemarna) is going to be doing a detailed study and breakdown of events in Mitre Square after hes finished his work on events in Buck’s Row.
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  #3  
Old 05-03-2018, 01:51 PM
Elamarna Elamarna is online now
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Originally Posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
Hi Skip,

I know that hes not doing a computer simulation but Steve (Elemarna) is going to be doing a detailed study and breakdown of events in Mitre Square after hes finished his work on events in Buck’s Row.
Somewhee on here are pages which have animations on a map of the beats for mitre square.

Can anyone remember where
Steve
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  #4  
Old 05-03-2018, 01:52 PM
Elamarna Elamarna is online now
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Found them

The police officials section.
Click on watkins and harvey beats are there

Steve
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Old 05-03-2018, 01:54 PM
Elamarna Elamarna is online now
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If you want in depth researh on the beats.
Ripperologist 74 and 75 i think articles by gavin Bromley.

Steve
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  #6  
Old 05-03-2018, 02:59 PM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
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Originally Posted by Elamarna View Post
If you want in depth researh on the beats.
Ripperologist 74 and 75 i think articles by gavin Bromley.

Steve
Hi Steve
The only problem with the beats is that he has tried to calculate the time it would take from A-B at different walking speeds, and this in my opinion is unsafe as any walking speed cannot be accurately calculated as being correct. and besides with regards to the police officers in question we do not know if they deviated slightly, or stopped to check property etc, between A-B. Any of those would drastically effect the times between A_B.

With regards to Mitre Square as you are aware minutes are crucial in the grand scheme of things.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk
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Old 05-03-2018, 03:19 PM
Elamarna Elamarna is online now
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Hi Steve
The only problem with the beats is that he has tried to calculate the time it would take from A-B at different walking speeds, and this in my opinion is unsafe as any walking speed cannot be accurately calculated as being correct. and besides with regards to the police officers in question we do not know if they deviated slightly, or stopped to check property etc, between A-B. Any of those would drastically effect the times between A_B.

With regards to Mitre Square as you are aware minutes are crucial in the grand scheme of things.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk
Its certainly a point of debate Trevor over how acurate timings are.
However he uses the estimated times the officers themselves suggest as his starting point.
A range of times is given which is quite wide.

I have done much the same for bucks row, but used an even wider range.
This gives best possible and worst possible times.
We need to work with these as best we can.
The major point i see in favour of the range used here is the beats were actually very short compared tp say Bucks Row.

I shall be using Gavins figures as a starting point when i move onto Mitre square. But i may well develope gavins suggestions further, i do not know yet.
I have some ideas that may alay some of your concerns about lack of time.
However i gather you have more coming yourself so i will wait until this is released until we probably lock horns as usual. But you never know we may agree on somethings.

We will see how things look later in the year i hope


Steve
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  #8  
Old 05-03-2018, 05:10 PM
jerryd jerryd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkipToTheEnd View Post
Has anyone tried to create a map simulation tracing the two police beats around mitre square.

If we were to know the time they would have started their beats that day.

The time it took to complete the beat (which i think ive read somewhere)

run the simulation and slow it down around the time of the murder. We could ascertain the likely positions of both policemen at the time of the murder (potentially add in the sighting by lewende)

This could show likely escape route and also hint at whether one of the police men was telling slight porkies about how far they ventured into the square

just a thought anyways...
Hi SkiptotheEnd,

I feel a lot of it relies on if the driving rain that night delayed the beat officers at all? It was raining hard enough at 1:30 to keep Lawende and Company from leaving the Imperial Club for an extra four or five minutes.

In PC Harvey's testimony he states he was in Aldgate returning toward Duke Street when he heard George Morris blow his whistle. Based on what we know of Harvey's beat, that would likely place him between Mitre Street and Duke Street on Aldgate at murder time.

Watkins had left the square (prior to the murder) aprrox. 1:30. His beat took him between 10-14 minutes. That would place him very near the square at the estimated time of the murder (1:44 or 1:45ish). At 10 minutes he would have made the round and would have been leaving Mitre Square heading up King Street into St James Place. At 14 minutes he would have been in the square around the time of the murder.
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Old 05-04-2018, 04:09 AM
Bridewell Bridewell is offline
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Hi SkiptotheEnd,

I feel a lot of it relies on if the driving rain that night delayed the beat officers at all? It was raining hard enough at 1:30 to keep Lawende and Company from leaving the Imperial Club for an extra four or five minutes.
Jerryd makes an excellent point here. If the rain was heavy enough to delay the departure of Lawende and his companions it almost certainly had a comparable effect on others in the area. New officers were always reminded by the old sweats that "a good policeman never gets wet". Harvey and Watkin had the added advantage of working the same beats on a regular basis. I woudn't be at all surprised to learn that Watkin had sheltered for several minutes until the worst of the rain had gone; St James' Passage leading off from Mitre Square has to be a likely candidate location.
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Old 05-04-2018, 07:10 AM
jerryd jerryd is offline
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Jerryd makes an excellent point here. If the rain was heavy enough to delay the departure of Lawende and his companions it almost certainly had a comparable effect on others in the area.
Hi Bridewell,

Including Eddowes and her killer.
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