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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Victims > Non-Canonical Victims > Martha Tabram

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  #511  
Old 10-20-2017, 03:51 PM
etenguy etenguy is offline
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Originally Posted by Wickerman View Post
Ok thanks Abby.
I readily admit your proposal of a man with two knives is quite feasible, it's just the caveat I have in him using a penknife if he had a dagger on him. I think that is the Achilles Heel, so to speak.

So, the sticking point for me is, that if he had a dagger, why would he use a clasp-knife/penknife about 38 times, before he used the one weapon that could finish the job.
I'm not saying he couldn't, it just requires some explanation.
As you know, I believe the Ripper may have been the person who murdered Tabram, but not to the exclusion of considering other possibilities.

The argument you make for two people involved in Tabram's murder is compelling. One possible explanation for one person using two weapons is that the murderer was more interested in exercising control/power over his victim than killing them, maybe wanting to cause them a slow death. Hence a large number of smaller wounds. When that didn't result in death, he used a larger blade to end her life.

This explanation does not support the murderer being the Ripper, however.
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  #512  
Old Today, 02:51 AM
Michael W Richards Michael W Richards is offline
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Originally Posted by etenguy View Post
As you know, I believe the Ripper may have been the person who murdered Tabram, but not to the exclusion of considering other possibilities.

The argument you make for two people involved in Tabram's murder is compelling. One possible explanation for one person using two weapons is that the murderer was more interested in exercising control/power over his victim than killing them, maybe wanting to cause them a slow death. Hence a large number of smaller wounds. When that didn't result in death, he used a larger blade to end her life.

This explanation does not support the murderer being the Ripper, however.
A thought occurred to me reading your post, technically the second man with the larger knife could have been "Jack", and more plausibly than the multiple stabber. Could be the first taste of the kill I suppose.

The crux with this multiple stabber is that he was in a rage, and appears to have stabbed everywhere he could. Not just in places that would shorten the attack and lessen the need for the many superfluous stabs he made. That man isn't calmly going about his business, as I envision was the man who killed Annie Chapman. He posed as something he was not, and in early light in plain view of many windows, he takes time to cuts flaps off the victim to ease his access to what he wanted. Cold. That guy was focused and fearless..likely because he was dangerously nuts.

The 2 weapons, 1 recognizably larger, and the frenzied nature of the many stabs lends itself well to a very drunk soldier, carrying a penknife on him, gets insulted by a prostitute and reacts in a rage, who is found over the dying woman..still moving slightly, and he or the new arrival draws a large blade he is carrying, ends the womans suffering, and the new arrival gets his mate the hell out of there.

I think that people focus too much on the tag of murderer when looking at possible sources of violence from the East End at that time, there was anger, tension and frustration in that area, even moderately mean men can become murderers with enough perceived provocation and drink. We don't need to look hard to find men that could fit in that category in that neighborhood. Its why I easily see the possibilities of other murderers aside from the Jack fellow operating in the same area at the same time.
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