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  #101  
Old 01-21-2018, 01:40 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginger
That alone makes him the greatest President of my lifetime.
Hadn't you better wait to see what he delivers, and any consequences therefrom, before drawing such a conclusion?
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  #102  
Old 01-21-2018, 02:51 AM
DirectorDave DirectorDave is offline
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Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
Hadn't you better wait to see what he delivers, and any consequences therefrom, before drawing such a conclusion?
Like the Nobel Committee did with Obama? How silly does that look now?
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  #103  
Old 01-21-2018, 03:13 AM
jason_c jason_c is offline
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Bottom line is that the American taxpayers are going to pay for The Wall, or more correctly, improvements to the present border wall (even Trump himself admits that one long, continuous border wall is not needed because of the terrain).

Now, Trump and his people keep saying there are ways to make Mexico pay -- most recently I heard this would be effected by means of changes to NAFTA, the North American Free Trade Agreement between the United States and its neighbors Mexico and Canada that the Donald keeps complaining about as a bad deal that he never would have made (much like the Iran nuclear deal) -- but it must be wondered how much exactly can be squeezed out of the Mexicans when the government in Mexico City has been adamant that it won't pay for The Wall.
This may not be as significant as you think. There is a relatively easy "get out" for both sides here. Any increased money flows from Mexico/Mexicans to the US government may just be lumped into central US Federal coffers. It doesn't have to be labelled as "money from Mexico to be paid exclusively for a border Wall". That way the Mexican government can tell Mexican's it isn't paying for the Wall. Trump can tell his voters the Wall is costing them little or nothing.
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  #104  
Old 01-21-2018, 03:24 AM
ChrisGeorge ChrisGeorge is offline
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Originally Posted by jason_c View Post
This may not be as significant as you think. There is a relatively easy "get out" for both sides here. Any increased money flows from Mexico/Mexicans to the US government may just be lumped into central US Federal coffers. It doesn't have to be labelled as "money from Mexico to be paid exclusively for a border Wall". That way the Mexican government can tell Mexican's it isn't paying for the Wall. Trump can tell his voters the Wall is costing them little or nothing.
Mmmmmm, much as the majority of Trump voters will get little or nothing from his administration's much vaunted tax cuts.
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  #105  
Old 01-21-2018, 03:47 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Like the Nobel Committee did with Obama?
There's even more reason to be cautious about making premature judgments on how successful a presidency will be delivered by someone as naive and inexperienced as Donald Trump. Just because he's shot his mouth off in a crude and populist manner in his first year is no basis for calling him "the greatest president of my lifetime". It's not even a basis for suggesting that he will even become a great president; quite the contrary, if anything.
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Last edited by Sam Flynn : 01-21-2018 at 04:09 AM.
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  #106  
Old 01-21-2018, 03:50 AM
jason_c jason_c is offline
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Mmmmmm, much as the majority of Trump voters will get little or nothing from his administration's much vaunted tax cuts.

What on earth has this to do with the wall? I made a relevant and reasonable response to your post on the wall. Is it too much to expect a relevant response from you?
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  #107  
Old 01-21-2018, 05:13 AM
DirectorDave DirectorDave is offline
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Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
There's even more reason to be cautious about making premature judgments on how successful a presidency will be delivered by someone as naive and inexperienced as Donald Trump. Just because he's shot his mouth off in a crude and populist manner in his first year is no basis for calling him "the greatest president of my lifetime". It's not even a basis for suggesting that he will even become a great president; quite the contrary, if anything.
I was not disagreeing with you, the Obama Nobel peace prize is a prime example of that. Obama was a "community organiser" then a senator for a couple of years? I'm not sure how that politically stacks up against being in business for 50 years.

I'm not sure Trump has the stuff to be regarded as a "Great President" but these judgements are usually made long after someone is out of office. Will he be better than the mediocre Obama? Nothing I've seen from him so far indicates he wont.

He still has plenty of time to muck things up.
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  #108  
Old 01-21-2018, 10:17 AM
c.d. c.d. is offline
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I always found it amusing that the fact that Obama had at one time been a "community organizer" made those on the right go crazy as though there was something actually wrong with that and that that had been the only job he ever had. Amusing since the essence of right wing philosophy is that everyone needs to take personal responsibility and not rely on government to pull themselves up. Obama simply tried to help those in his community better themselves. And it was something he did for just a short time right after college.

So while ripping Obama for only being a "community organizer" they conveniently glossed over the fact that he had also been a professor at the University of Chicago law school (not too shabby in and of itself) as well as a state senator and United States senator. He has no experience the right cried! Yet, they put forth as a candidate Donald Trump who never held ANY political office before being elected president. None. Zip. Nada. Yes, but he has real world experience they claimed as though the United States is a business.

Welcome to the world of politics.

c.d.
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  #109  
Old 01-21-2018, 10:57 AM
Limehouse Limehouse is offline
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Originally Posted by c.d. View Post
I always found it amusing that the fact that Obama had at one time been a "community organizer" made those on the right go crazy as though there was something actually wrong with that and that that had been the only job he ever had. Amusing since the essence of right wing philosophy is that everyone needs to take personal responsibility and not rely on government to pull themselves up. Obama simply tried to help those in his community better themselves. And it was something he did for just a short time right after college.

So while ripping Obama for only being a "community organizer" they conveniently glossed over the fact that he had also been a professor at the University of Chicago law school (not too shabby in and of itself) as well as a state senator and United States senator. He has no experience the right cried! Yet, they put forth as a candidate Donald Trump who never held ANY political office before being elected president. None. Zip. Nada. Yes, but he has real world experience they claimed as though the United States is a business.

Welcome to the world of politics.

c.d.
Indeed, CD, and from what I have read, Trump may have multi-million dollar businesses, but he appears to have defaulted on paying his bills many times over and has filed for bankruptcy several times.

I am astonished that some people consider him the greatest president in their lifetime - but then I am only a humble UK citizen.

I wonder what the late Mrs Thatcher would have made of him? Mincemeat, perhaps?
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  #110  
Old 01-21-2018, 11:20 AM
jason_c jason_c is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c.d. View Post
I always found it amusing that the fact that Obama had at one time been a "community organizer" made those on the right go crazy as though there was something actually wrong with that and that that had been the only job he ever had. Amusing since the essence of right wing philosophy is that everyone needs to take personal responsibility and not rely on government to pull themselves up. Obama simply tried to help those in his community better themselves. And it was something he did for just a short time right after college.

So while ripping Obama for only being a "community organizer" they conveniently glossed over the fact that he had also been a professor at the University of Chicago law school (not too shabby in and of itself) as well as a state senator and United States senator. He has no experience the right cried! Yet, they put forth as a candidate Donald Trump who never held ANY political office before being elected president. None. Zip. Nada. Yes, but he has real world experience they claimed as though the United States is a business.

Welcome to the world of politics.

c.d.
Yes, welcome to the world of politics. A world where 5 years ago a government shutdown was a disgraceful act. Today a government shutdown is a principled stand against an out of control White House. Today it's evidence the President is not performing his job adequately, but 5 years ago a government shutdown was not the Presidents fault. Welcome to a world where BOTH sides are filled with partisan hypocritical shysters.
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