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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Victims > Mary Jane Kelly

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  #41  
Old 08-04-2017, 06:44 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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But, "some posters" enjoy complaining about other posters. If they hit 'ignore', they can't see what those others are saying, so they can't complain anymore.
That's why they'll never use it.
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  #42  
Old 08-04-2017, 08:27 PM
Flower and Dean Flower and Dean is offline
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I'm guessing this thread isn't really about the gruesome murder of a young woman and is about something else I'm still missing
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  #43  
Old 08-04-2017, 08:34 PM
Zena Zena is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wickerman View Post
But, "some posters" enjoy complaining about other posters. If they hit 'ignore', they can't see what those others are saying, so they can't complain anymore.
That's why they'll never use it.
So true.
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  #44  
Old 08-05-2017, 04:41 AM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower and Dean View Post
I'm guessing this thread isn't really about the gruesome murder of a young woman and is about something else I'm still missing
Well you pretty much nailed the problem in your previous post.
The photograph of the back of room 13 shows those windows were sash-windows. The bottom frame is off-set just a little from the upper frame indicating the lower frame would slide up. This is a sash window design, and it beggars belief that the police wouldn't have tried to slide the windows up from the outside.
If the killer climbed out through a window he couldn't lock it so it would have easily slide up on Friday morning.
So logic dictates those windows did not open, either because they were so rotten or because they were locked from the inside.

The fact the door hit a table as it swung open does not mean the table obstructed the door in any way. We don't know at what point of the swing the door hit the table.
The door being barricaded has no foundation.
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  #45  
Old 08-05-2017, 12:31 PM
Flower and Dean Flower and Dean is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wickerman View Post
Well you pretty much nailed the problem in your previous post.
The photograph of the back of room 13 shows those windows were sash-windows. The bottom frame is off-set just a little from the upper frame indicating the lower frame would slide up. This is a sash window design, and it beggars belief that the police wouldn't have tried to slide the windows up from the outside.
If the killer climbed out through a window he couldn't lock it so it would have easily slide up on Friday morning.
So logic dictates those windows did not open, either because they were so rotten or because they were locked from the inside.

The fact the door hit a table as it swung open does not mean the table obstructed the door in any way. We don't know at what point of the swing the door hit the table.
The door being barricaded has no foundation.
I didn't say it had. My post that you're quoting is about the off-topic conversation going on. I don't want to get involved so I'm sorry if I should have ellaborated more, but I think it's obvious what the issue is when a thread (even a useless one) has so many posts and many are just about personal conflict between users.

Anyway, I agree that yes, speculating whether the killer barricaded the door or not is pretty pointless. There's no indication that he barricaded the door before leaving through a window.

On the other hand, I think it'd be interesting to know if Kelly may have barricaded the door (or tried to) at some point. I've seen conversations before asking about why she didn't seem more scared and why she didn't barricade the door, and this being used to support theories about her movements in the last few hours of her life or about who the killer could have been. (There's no way of knowing whether she did, either, but then again there's no way of knowing specifics about a lot of things we discuss here anyway.)
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  #46  
Old 08-05-2017, 02:07 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower and Dean View Post
I didn't say it had.....
This sounds like you are responding to the last line of my post. I'm sorry for the confusion, that line was directed at the title of the thread. I should have stated that clearly.


Quote:
On the other hand, I think it'd be interesting to know if Kelly may have barricaded the door (or tried to) at some point. I've seen conversations before asking about why she didn't seem more scared and why she didn't barricade the door, and this being used to support theories about her movements in the last few hours of her life or about who the killer could have been. (There's no way of knowing whether she did, either, but then again there's no way of knowing specifics about a lot of things we discuss here anyway.)
Kelly may have barricaded the door when she was in by herself.
Whether she barricaded the door on the night of her murder depends on whether she was alone or not.

The way I see it is that if she brought a client back to her room then she was not alone, so obviously didn't barricade the door. She was not to know her client would be her killer.

On the other hand some believe she was alone, and in bed asleep, then in that case she may have barricaded the door. In that case it would seem impractical to suggest a burglar managed to open the door while she slept.
Obviously then, the burglar theorists will reject the barricade theory, it doesn't work for them. Yet if her friend upstairs did it, and if she was as concerned as Barnett suggested, it is a real possibility that when alone she did precisely that.

Regardless, the fact the door hit the side table when opened that morning is not an indication that she barricaded her door.
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  #47  
Old 08-06-2017, 12:29 PM
Flower and Dean Flower and Dean is offline
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Wickerman, I agree with almost everything you've said in your post. I find it hard to imagine that Kelly would barricade the door if she wasn't alone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wickerman View Post
On the other hand some believe she was alone, and in bed asleep, then in that case she may have barricaded the door. In that case it would seem impractical to suggest a burglar managed to open the door while she slept.
Obviously then, the burglar theorists will reject the barricade theory, it doesn't work for them. Yet if her friend upstairs did it, and if she was as concerned as Barnett suggested, it is a real possibility that when alone she did precisely that.
I don't know if the table would have blocked the door from moving, I guess that would depend on the table. A flimsy table wouldn't offer much protection except to deter a burglar who found some resistance to open the door and gave up or make noise and wake up Kelly.

You've got a good point, though, even a lightweight table would have at least made some noise when being pushed by the door so it sounds less likely that she was surprised in her sleep. I'll have to think about that

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wickerman View Post
Regardless, the fact the door hit the side table when opened that morning is not an indication that she barricaded her door.
I agree.
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