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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Victims > Mary Jane Kelly

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  #61  
Old 09-01-2017, 03:27 PM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is offline
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Tycho Brahe?
That made me chuckle :-)
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  #62  
Old 09-02-2017, 02:40 AM
Michael W Richards Michael W Richards is offline
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Another word for "snitch" was "nose".
That said, can you cite any examples of other people being de-nosed? Aside from Kelly.
I don't have a specific reference at the moment Joshua, but it may have been in Fenian Fire if I recall correctly. It was done by Irish revolutionary supporters to street level criminals who ratted out others. Other facial markings as well. I find that quite interesting when coupled with Kates alleged statement about attempting to collect the reward. That would be a dangerous bargaining chip for her, but potential profit might have led her to the cliffs edge.

I can easily see a meeting to arrange to meet with the person and see if she could negotiate a better windfall. That may have been Saturday afternoon. She is plied with liquor, they learn how much she knows, and arrange to meet her for a payoff. I think her incarceration made her late, and her joy that the person was still waiting is shown by the hand on the chest, perhaps with a sigh of relief. Which would be incredibly ironic.

Why the person would wait would raise another question, did he know she was in jail?
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  #63  
Old 09-02-2017, 03:27 AM
Harry D Harry D is offline
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And that relates how to a murder of a young woman in London in 1888 during what was a string of murders with various bits taken from 2 girls prior?
Because it completely invalidates your theory that MJK must have been killed by someone she knew. You think the murder was personal because she had been extensively mutilated, when there are plenty of horrific examples of murders committed by mentally deranged individuals who had no relationship to the victim.
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  #64  
Old 09-02-2017, 03:32 AM
Harry D Harry D is offline
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Do you think Napper had any prior connection to JTR literature, though? I can't help feeling that he was trying to recreate the scene in Miller's Court.
Possibly, but I don't think any such connection was ever established.

In the States there was Richard Chase, another paranoid schizophrenic serial killer who committed post-mortem mutilation and harvested organs:

Three months pregnant at the time, Wallin was surprised at her home by Chase, who shot her three times, killing her using the same gun he used to kill Griffin. He then raped her corpse while stabbing her several times with a butcher knife. He then removed multiple organs, cut off one of her nipples and drank the blood.
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  #65  
Old 09-02-2017, 03:38 AM
curious curious is offline
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If it wasnt so damn pathetic using modern cases to try and make a point about 130 year old murders, it would be funny.
You don't think it might demonstrate "types" or patterns in human behavior?

curious
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  #66  
Old 09-02-2017, 04:01 AM
Darryl Kenyon Darryl Kenyon is offline
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[quote=Michael W Richards;427753]I don't have a specific reference at the moment Joshua, but it may have been in Fenian Fire if I recall correctly. It was done by Irish revolutionary supporters to street level criminals who ratted out others. Other facial markings as well. I find that quite interesting when coupled with Kates alleged statement about attempting to collect the reward. That would be a dangerous bargaining chip for her, but potential profit might have led her to the cliffs edge.


Didn't Irish revolutionaries generally cut off the hair of women who where low level snitches and or friendly with the police, rather than the tip of the nose.
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  #67  
Old 09-02-2017, 05:37 AM
Michael W Richards Michael W Richards is offline
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You don't think it might demonstrate "types" or patterns in human behavior?

curious
ink that more modern serial killers are aware of the variables with Police investigations, and that the police have far more scientific means at their disposal than in 1888. Therefore I believe they modify their behavior in order to mislead an investigation.

In 1888 in East End London, very little could be obtained from any forensic review of a crime site or artifacts from one, and the killers of the day knew that. They therefore behaved in a far more natural manner, not confined by what might catch up with them later.

I also believe that what makes someone kill doesn't change, although what they do may. Objectives, motives, I look for consistency within the Canonical Group but I don't see it.
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  #68  
Old 09-02-2017, 05:40 AM
curious curious is offline
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ink that more modern serial killers are aware of the variables with Police investigations, and that the police have far more scientific means at their disposal than in 1888. Therefore I believe they modify their behavior in order to mislead an investigation.

In 1888 in East End London, very little could be obtained from any forensic review of a crime site or artifacts from one, and the killers of the day knew that. They therefore behaved in a far more natural manner, not confined by what might catch up with them later.

I also believe that what makes someone kill doesn't change, although what they do may. Objectives, motives, I look for consistency within the Canonical Group but I don't see it.
But aren't we talking about obsessions? Behaviors that gets out of the person's control?

curious
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  #69  
Old 09-02-2017, 01:42 PM
Pierre Pierre is offline
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But aren't we talking about obsessions? Behaviors that gets out of the person's control?

curious
Control is an important element for many serial killers. Their behaviour does not get out of their own control but through their behaviour they control their victims.
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