Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The Ripper Diary: Old Hoax Theories

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Originally posted by caz View Post
    Blimey, that was quick!

    I would think lots of people had access to Battlecrease in the aftermath of Jim's death and Florie's arrest.

    Later on I seem to recall the jury foreman lived there? Also it became quite a tourist attraction.

    Love,

    Caz
    X
    G'day Caz

    I only heard about the juror recently and that's an interesting angle, that I could speculate on all day, but I suspect that's all it would be speculation.
    G U T

    There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by pinkmoon View Post
      Morning my dear,any chance of Mr Skinner revealing his new information to us is there a book in the pipeline?xxxxxx.
      Ooh you're all on the ball today.

      If patience is a virtue, pinkster, I must be as virtuous as anyone in this.

      Time - as Jim's motto went - reveals all.

      In this case it might only reveal that the bloody thing was indeed in Battlecrease. Even if this were generally accepted, it would only create more questions. I very much doubt we will ever know who actually penned it - unless someone somewhere finds matching handwriting. And it wouldn't be of late 20th century origin.

      Love,

      Caz
      X
      Last edited by caz; 04-30-2015, 03:56 AM.
      "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


      Comment


      • #33
        [QUOTE=caz;338787]Ooh you're all on the ball today.

        If patience is a virtue, pinkster, I must be as virtuous as anyone in this.

        Time - as Jim's motto went - reveals all.

        In this case it might only reveal that the bloody thing was indeed in Battlecrease. Even if this was generally accepted, it would only create more questions. I very much doubt we will ever know who actually penned it - unless someone somewhere finds matching handwriting. And it wouldn't be of late 20th century origin.

        Love,

        Caz
        X[/Q
        It would be a disaster if Mr Barrett was to snuff it before we found out the truth.
        Three things in life that don't stay hidden for to long ones the sun ones the moon and the other is the truth

        Comment


        • #34
          It's one thing placing it in battlecrease but for that to work it would have to be placed at a time and a place where it could be discoverd which then destroys the old hoax theory.
          Three things in life that don't stay hidden for to long ones the sun ones the moon and the other is the truth

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by caz View Post
            But then how did it arrive in Battlecrease? You don't need to trust me that it did; I have Keith Skinner with me on this one.

            Love,

            Caz
            X
            Me too, Caz. I'm hoping Keith's information will be
            released in Bruce Robinson's book "They all Love Jack",
            coming this September.

            Battlecrease was empty from about the last week in May
            to early November when the Fletcher Rogers family took
            over the lease. He died soon after, but the family stayed
            in the house for a few years. Then an insurance agent
            Frederick Loftus and his family lived there and after they
            left, Francis Warre Rathbone (son of a wealthy merchant
            family) took it over for a few years. Then in about 1921,
            Alan Rumohr Hughes took over the house and lived there
            for about 20 years.

            Hughes is interesting. He was the nephew (by marriage)
            of Constance Martha (Janion) Hughes, sister of Mrs Matilda
            (Janion) Briggs. If you recall, these two women were there
            when Jim died and participated in the search of the house and
            later testified at Florence's trial.

            And then there's Douglas Quintin Steel and his wife, who
            lived in the other half of Battlecrease. Steel and his brother
            Allan Gibson Steel represented the Maybrick brothers at
            Florence's trial and later during the litigation brought by
            Florence's lawyer, Richard S Cleaver to claim Jim's insurance
            payout. In the early 1890s, Steel claimed bankruptcy with
            debts of over £17K. It was rumored that Florence had had
            an affair with his brother, Arthur Jackson Steel, an immensely
            wealthy ship owner and one of five Steel brothers. Allan Gibson
            Steel left Liverpool for London and became a QC. He was also
            a cricket star who wrote books on the subject and played in the
            first match against Australia, the famous "Ashes" tournament.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Livia View Post
              Me too, Caz. I'm hoping Keith's information will be
              released in Bruce Robinson's book "They all Love Jack",
              coming this September.

              Battlecrease was empty from about the last week in May
              to early November when the Fletcher Rogers family took
              over the lease. He died soon after, but the family stayed
              in the house for a few years. Then an insurance agent
              Frederick Loftus and his family lived there and after they
              left, Francis Warre Rathbone (son of a wealthy merchant
              family) took it over for a few years. Then in about 1921,
              Alan Rumohr Hughes took over the house and lived there
              for about 20 years.

              Hughes is interesting. He was the nephew (by marriage)
              of Constance Martha (Janion) Hughes, sister of Mrs Matilda
              (Janion) Briggs. If you recall, these two women were there
              when Jim died and participated in the search of the house and
              later testified at Florence's trial.

              And then there's Douglas Quintin Steel and his wife, who
              lived in the other half of Battlecrease. Steel and his brother
              Allan Gibson Steel represented the Maybrick brothers at
              Florence's trial and later during the litigation brought by
              Florence's lawyer, Richard S Cleaver to claim Jim's insurance
              payout. In the early 1890s, Steel claimed bankruptcy with
              debts of over £17K. It was rumored that Florence had had
              an affair with his brother, Arthur Jackson Steel, an immensely
              wealthy ship owner and one of five Steel brothers. Allan Gibson
              Steel left Liverpool for London and became a QC. He was also
              a cricket star who wrote books on the subject and played in the
              first match against Australia, the famous "Ashes" tournament.
              Thanks for that I'll have to digest it, there are a few potentials there to have planted it [if it was indeed planted].
              G U T

              There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

              Comment


              • #37
                Can we link a journalist to battlecrease?
                Three things in life that don't stay hidden for to long ones the sun ones the moon and the other is the truth

                Comment


                • #38
                  None that I know of, other than the "journalist"
                  who wrote it. I doubt they were paid enough to
                  be able to afford to live there.

                  There was a "mysterious death" in Manchester,
                  although the timing is off. But if the diary was
                  written by recall at some later date, that could
                  explain why this incident doesn't fit. An Elizabeth
                  Ellison and her boyfriend (Evans) went to see the
                  Queen's Jubilee Exhibition (November 1887) and
                  then stopped off at a hotel bar for a drink. She went
                  outside to wait for him, but was missing when he
                  went to meet her. She was found in the Old Trafford
                  Canal a day or two later with post-mortem mutilations
                  to her body.

                  The first pathologist said she was strangled, the
                  second said she wasn't. Evans was arrested,
                  but released due to lack of evidence.

                  There was an Ellison who married into the Maybrick
                  family and one of them gave all their children the
                  middle name "Maybrick" in the hope of financial gain.
                  This is mentioned in Feldman. But this Elizabeth Ellison
                  was from Warrington, not Liverpool and I never found a
                  link between the families, although I didn't look too hard
                  because of the date discrepancy.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Are we forgetting something?

                    The watch! Any old hoax theory has to include the watch, doesn't it?

                    The Diary and the watch would have to have been created at the same time. How did they get separated?

                    Was the watch pawned or sold and the Diary kept? Were there two discoverers?

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by GUT View Post
                      Michael the brother?

                      Or Michael Barrett?

                      One I suspect, the other I don't think I do.
                      Sorry, should have been more specific! Michael the brother. Very interesting character.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by MayBea View Post
                        Are we forgetting something?

                        The watch! Any old hoax theory has to include the watch, doesn't it?

                        The Diary and the watch would have to have been created at the same time. How did they get separated?

                        Was the watch pawned or sold and the Diary kept? Were there two discoverers?
                        Was there anyone who lived in the house, so may have left the diary behind inadvertently or not.

                        Who had connections with the family and crime, so may have had knowledge.

                        Who got into financial difficulties, and may have had to sell the watch, or even lost it in a bankruptcy.
                        G U T

                        There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Purkis View Post
                          Sorry, should have been more specific! Michael the brother. Very interesting character.
                          And if written as a work of fiction, planning to publish it or not [it may have just been to excise some demons] a man with his creative flair isn't out of the question.
                          G U T

                          There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Battlecrease was stripped of everything that wasn't
                            nailed down, including the children's toys.

                            Unfortunately, this copy of the ad from the 9th July 1889
                            Liverpool Mercury is not very clear, but clear enough so
                            that you can "Watches" listed among the jewelry. One
                            watch is described as counterspring, gold, keyless,
                            monogrammed, open dial watch.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              All of our theories are dependent on one simple fact that the diary and watch have been tested properly.
                              Three things in life that don't stay hidden for to long ones the sun ones the moon and the other is the truth

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by pinkmoon View Post
                                All of our theories are dependent on one simple fact that the diary and watch have been tested properly.
                                But the start of the thread asks us to assume that it is an old hoax, I am not persuaded on that yet, but am still open.
                                G U T

                                There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X