Jack the Ripper At Last? by Helena Wojtczak

[Ally]

It's interesting regarding age ranges because I do believe that is almost impossible to guess. I know women who are 40 who look like they are 25 and I know women who are 25 who look like they are 40. So many variables.

I do think people age better than they did even 50 years ago though so I am not sure if it would be apt to do old time shots. Stephen and I watch old movies a lot and we look at some of the actors and actresses and when we look up their ages we find they were younger than us when they did those movies, but looked ten years older. Or possibly just more mature, since we are infantile. I don't know. But a 35 year old person from the 50's compared to a 35 year old now is a world of difference.

In Jon's example, I bet people were basing it on his clothing. Which was I think a choice that made him look younger. A hoodie??

[Lechmere]

Stephen and I watch old movies a lot and we look at some of the actors and actresses and when we look up their ages we find they were younger than us when they did those movies, but looked ten years older.

You wish

[Robert]

Voice will sometimes unconsciously colour perceptions of age. Also language - if you hear someone say "bro" they're probably not 50.

[bigjon]

In Jon's example, I bet people were basing it on his clothing. Which was I think a choice that made him look younger. A hoodie??

No idea if that is how he normally dresses or if he wore it specifically for the "part".

[Amanda Sumner]

Thank you Rob for an interesting experiment which also supports my statement that it is almost impossible to ascertain someone's age, especially when only getting a glimpse in poor street lighting! I agree that clothes and speech can give away some clues and of course how someone moves or walks can help.
So, in theory, we could have had a young 23 year old on the loose in 1888....

[Varqm]

Hi Rob,

3 and 4 I was far-off. I made a fast 5-7 seconds calculation. They look so sad and experienced. Number 3 went through a lot. Number 4 look like an old burdened woman.Number 2 look like he had a good somewhat merry life.

I thought I was good.

[Steve S]

Strangely, I made the three I got wrong all two years older than actual age........But how much of that was the preconception that people then "dressed older", whereas today we "dress younger"?

[Ally]

Exactly Steve.

[Amanda Sumner]

I can't say that the clothes particularly influenced me when guessing their ages in these photos. In those days people dressed, generally, very similarly whether old or young. The quality of the cloth depicted quite often their status in life. I studied their faces which gave me a better idea to guess how old they were, which was a far longer time than any of the witness's had then. I agree with Varqm that they all look rather jaded and depressed with life, except number 2 but I don't see much merriment there either.

[robhouse]

My own guesses, incidentally, were
35
15
40
30

So I overestimated pretty much everyone, except the teenager.

Rob

[Abby Normal]

My own guesses, incidentally, were
35
15
40
30

So I overestimated pretty much everyone, except the teenager.

Rob

interesting activity Rob-thanks.
Reiterates that age is not very reliable, and as I said before Chapman may have simply looked older anyway.

My main problem with Chapman is that most of the witnesses heard the suspect speak and none of them describe a man with an accent, which Chapman surly had.

[Sam Flynn]

My main problem with Chapman is that most of the witnesses heard the suspect speak and none of them describe a man with an accent, which Chapman surly had.

Not only that but, according to Wolff Levisohn, Chapman couldn't speak English when he first knew him in 1888/89, only Polish and a biseleh Yiddish.

[Tecs]

Not only that but, according to Wolff Levisohn, Chapman couldn't speak English when he first knew him in 1888/89, only Polish and a biseleh Yiddish.

Hi Sam,

But there is a debate about that regarding the fact that as a fellow speaker Wolff would have no reason to speak to him in anything other than those languages.

But do we know whether Wolff himself could speak English at that time? Certainly he could later when in court but if he also only spoke Yiddish and Polish in 1889ish then he would only have conversed in those languages.

I haven't had time to check anything so it may be a simple answer.

regards,

[Amanda Sumner]

interesting activity Rob-thanks.
Reiterates that age is not very reliable, and as I said before Chapman may have simply looked older anyway.

My main problem with Chapman is that most of the witnesses heard the suspect speak and none of them describe a man with an accent, which Chapman surly
had.

Well, I think Chapman can be challenged for other reasons than his age for being the Ripper. The point is he can't, or others, be dismissed for being too young. It's clear that witness's are unreliable when it comes to guessing someone's age except be able to recognise someone who is young, old or middle aged.
The photo on Helena Wojtczak's book cover was taken, I believe, at his arrest when he was, what, about 38 years old? There are several photos of him taken several years apart and he looks the same in every single one. The point I'm making is that some people age at different rates and there is nothing to say that Chapman, for example, did not dress and sport the same moustache way back in 1888.
I'm not saying he is our man, I don't think he is, but I think Helena will be exploring these very things in her book and giving a very factual account of Chapman's own life and crimes.

[Sam Flynn]

But there is a debate about that regarding the fact that as a fellow speaker Wolff would have no reason to speak to him in anything other than those languages.

True but, presumably, Levisohn would have been able to witness Klosowski dealing with customers in the barber shop.

But do we know whether Wolff himself could speak English at that time?

He'd certainly had plenty of time to pick up the lingo, Tecs. At Klosowski's trial, Levisohn says that he'd lived in England since the early 1860s - albeit he returned to Poland for a stint of national service in the 1870s, coming back to London when his duty was done. A Wolff "Levitison" [corrected to "Levisohn" on Ancestry.com] can be found living at St Pancras in the 1881 Census.