Casey Anthony Trial

[Errata]

It is not just about her being a lousy human being. I will admit, I thought the same, but after actively watching the trial (and going back and re-watching the first week of prosecution testimony which I missed), there is sufficient evidence to convict her.

Errata, did you actually watch all the trial (even the boring parts) or are you going on what the media has told you about it and the clips they have shown? If you haven't actually watched the entirety of the trial and all the evidence presented then you are doing what you accuse others of doing but the reverse--excusing her without all the facts in evidence.

I agree that the facts in evidence are damning. Firstly, there is no question she is a lousy human being, and secondly I believe the prosecution. I have no desire whatsoever to excuse Casey Anthony for sneezing, much less this crime.

But were I a juror, to convict "beyond a reasonable doubt" I would need to know how Caylee died, and I would need to know whether or not the body was moved. And yes, the body being moved was addressed, but it was not resolved to my satisfaction. I believe the prosecution. I am 99% sure Casey Anthony did this. But it's a death penalty case, and I would not be able to sentence her to death without those pieces of information.

It's not about excusing her or condemning her. It's not even about whether or not I believe she did it. Its about me personally not being able to sentence someone to die based on the facts in evidence. And I get that others don't see it that way. And that's fine. But I feel like if I couldn't do it, some actual jurors might not be able to do it. And that pisses me off because I do believe that she did this.

It's just the way I see the jurisprudence system working. It's not a commentary on her guilt or innocence.

[Ally]

I am confused...what do you mean by convinced the body wasn't moved? Moved by who? Obviously the body was moved from wherever she was killed to the woods, but you don't mean the Roy Kronk picked up the skull, brought it home with him and then brought it back scenario do you? The photos and they physical evidence at the scene kind of disproves that considering the skull was covered in debris. Not to mention, the defenses own witnesses completely disproved that scenario to the point that Baez dropped it entirely in his closing, because his own witnesses proved it false.

[ChainzCooper]

July 4th, Independence Day. The jury is expected to get the case today. Did Casey kill her daughter? I have no idea, I wasn't there. Of course rather than rushing to condemn her, I think it would be somewhat comforting to think that a mother did not murder her precious 2-year-old daughter and that the death really was some kind of accident. The problem, as I've said before, is that Casey Anthony is a pathological liar, and since I've had someone in my life with that same problem I know that it is a lifelong affliction. People are asking- why would she lie in a situation this serious? The answer is simple- because she is hard-wired to. Because she's been doing it her whole life and literally doesn't know how not to. I would bet that if someone was to interview people who've known her her whole life, little incidents of all kinds both small and large would pop up that made them **** their heads sideways and go, "Hey, wait a minute..." That's what pathological liars do- they mess with peoples' sense of reality. They often end up like the boy who cried wolf. Weave enough tall tales your whole life that sometimes get exposed and sometimes don't, and then suddenly when something major happens that you insist you didn't do because you actually didn't... God help you in convincing a jury. I'm just saying it's possible. If she is convicted, then I really hope she did it. If acquitted, then I really hope she didn't. The fact is- no matter what happens WE WILL NEVER KNOW FOR SURE! God, I hate the fact that the condition of pathological lying (also known as mythomania or pseudologia fantastica) exists. It makes a mess and a mockery of the truth.

Did Casey kill her daughter? I don't know, I opt for drowning in the pool myself it seems to really add up. Its just like JFK everyone knows it was the CIA and Fidel Castro in conjunction with the Mafia and Orenthal was practicing his chipping skills unpacked in his driveway right before the limo driver pulled up
Jordan

[Merry_Olde_Mary]

Actually people do stage accidents to look like homicides by other people, especially if they are afraid of being blamed for the death. My aunts old roommate was having an affair with her boss, and he died of a heart attack on top of her in a motel room. So she took his wallet and shot him in the head with her gun and ran out of there. She got caught, but she was afraid that if the affair came out she was going to get fired. She went to jail for a year for shooting a corpse.

WAIT a minute...that happened to ME once ! ! ! !

[Ally]

Well she got off...cannot believe it.

[Errata]

I am confused...what do you mean by convinced the body wasn't moved? Moved by who? Obviously the body was moved from wherever she was killed to the woods, but you don't mean the Roy Kronk picked up the skull, brought it home with him and then brought it back scenario do you? The photos and they physical evidence at the scene kind of disproves that considering the skull was covered in debris. Not to mention, the defenses own witnesses completely disproved that scenario to the point that Baez dropped it entirely in his closing, because his own witnesses proved it false.

No I don't think Roy Kronk did anything. I just personally have a hard time understanding why her body wasn't found earlier, when they were searching the woods and had the cadaver dogs. I wonder if the body was originally stashed somewhere else and later moved to a place she would be found.

And it is explainable in many ways I know. And has been explained two or three ways during the trial and in the commentary. But if I'm going to decide to end someone's life, I want to know for absolute certain what happened.

Let me be clear. The prosecutions case as it stands is enough for me to sentence her to life in prison. It's not enough for me to kill her. And it may seem like an odd distinction, but if she rots in jail for the rest of her life, and they uncover something that could prove her story, then they could retry her. But if they uncover something and she's dead... I know that the way the system works, if you believe someone is guilty enough to rot in jail, then you should also believe they are guilty enough to get the needle. But I'm human. I'm uncomfortable with the gaps.

I don't look at this as what the legal system needs for the death sentence. I'm looking at it from what I would need for it. I've never personally faced the situation, and I'm not entirely sure how comfortable I am with the death penalty at all. I understand that the prosecutions case is enough for a lot of people. And I don't have a problem with that. It just isn't enough for me. I just wish this was more clear cut. And I know the world doesn't work that way, and that it's a bit pollyanna-ish, but it's just how I feel.

I mean, I can't offer meaningful information or valuable insight into this case. I have neither. I'm just saying that this makes me uncomfortable. I like slam dunks. And I know they don't happen often. But this case has made me examine the difference between the purity of the legal system and the messiness of human behavior. It's the first time I have seen a case where the black and white makes me uncomfortable. Maybe because I'm getting older and am less black and white myself. And I certainly don't think the legal system should change to meet my needs. It just makes me wish it was less... complicated maybe? I'll get over it. It's just where I am now in my life.

[Errata]

Well she got off...cannot believe it.

They didn't even offer the jury Murder 2 did they?

[Ally]

No they offered a range including manslaughter of a child. Not guilty on all. I thought she was going to get not guilty on first but be convicted of manslaughter of a child...nope. Nothing. She is going to walk free on Thursday. Absolutely sickening.

[Merry_Olde_Mary]

Well that was a surprise...I wonder what her life will be like now?

Oh god, will there be a book, and she ends up rich? I wonder if she'll go on The View. All the women would just stare at her.

[kensei]

As I write this the verdict came in about half an hour ago. First degree murder- not guilty. Manslaughter- not guilty. Four counts of providing false information to law enforcement- guilty on all counts.

I was listening to the radio when they said it was going to be announced, and as I was waiting I decided to do something that is certainly not 100% surefire but which I've had some good results with in the past. Give me all the ribbing you want about this, but I've studied a lot of esoteric subjects and have experimented with certain techniques that might be called "fortune telling," and one of my favorites is pendulum scrying, the pendulum swinging one way or the other in response to yes or no questions. I know, very funny, but I figured it was worth a try. Question- did Casey Anthony kill her daughter Caylee? Answer- no. Question- was Casey involved in her daughter's murder? Answer- yes. Question- did Casey approve her daughter's murder? Answer- yes. Question- did the idea for Caylee's murder originate with Casey? Answer- yes.

I was angry then, and paced around my living room a bit going, "All right, give it to her." Then the verdict was announced, and it was quite emotional. But I know that I'm taking it personally not because of Casey but because of the person I had in my own life who was so much like her and all the messes she caused for me. Nobody died in that story, but that person did have a young child. Pathological liars- my personal pet peeve. Why are there people like that? Truth is so important, I can't stand seeing it made a mockery of. On the radio they were reacting to the verdict, saying, "Well, if she didn't do it then why would she lie?" And I yelled at them, "BECAUSE SHE"S CRAZY!"

Sorry, I just had to rant a bit. I'll probably do it again when Casey does her inevitable Diane Sawyer interview. I feel very, very bad for that poor child. Somebody out there murdered her.

[Errata]

No they offered a range including manslaughter of a child. Not guilty on all. I thought she was going to get not guilty on first but be convicted of manslaughter of a child...nope. Nothing. She is going to walk free on Thursday. Absolutely sickening.

Yeah that's what I thought would happen. The funny thing is, if they believed her story, she should have been convicted of manslaughter, since Caylee only could have drowned through an act of neglect. And failure to attempt resuscitation IS considered criminally negligent homicide.

I don't get it.

[Ally]

I do get it. It's basically the same mind set you have. People now have been brainwashed by CSI and other forensic hooey where they believe that if there is not a video of the person committing the murder, with blood splatter on their clothes, fingerprints on the murder weapon and DNA left behind of the offender, there is "reasonable doubt". People have elevated what "reasonable doubt" is to a ridiculous degree based on television and fantasy crime drama and now, people have a completely warped idea of what constitutes proven. They are incapable of using logic and common sense.

The irony being of course, that the "science" is only as good as the scientist testing it and interpreting it, and just as many people are now being convicted on phony forensics as were ever convicted without it.

You said yourself you could never convict based on the prosecutions case, well I guess they couldn't either. But hey, what's a murdered two year old matter as long as CSI keeps getting the ratings and the jury feels righteous and her scum sucking lawyer who slandered every one involved in the case from the detectives to the meter reader gets his fat check.

[Errata]

You said yourself you could never convict based on the prosecutions case, well I guess they couldn't either. But hey, what's a murdered two year old matter as long as CSI keeps getting the ratings and the jury feels righteous and her scum sucking lawyer who slandered every one involved in the case from the detectives to the meter reader gets his fat check.

Look, I get that you're pissed, but lets not have it be at me. I didn't say I couldn't convict based on the prosecutions case. I said I couldn't apply the death penalty based on it. Give me the option of Man 1 or Murder 2 and I'll take it in a heartbeat. By her own admission she is at least guilty of Man 1.

I have no problem understanding what is good science and what is not. I have friends at the Body Farm attached to this case, I know what they do, and I believe in what they do. Never mind the fact that I have consulted on murder cases with my old boss, and I prepared all of the expert testimony he gave at trials. I am not in any way caught up in CSI type crap, and I know what the legal definition of reasonable doubt is.

All I am saying is that it is a major gut check to be a juror in a death penalty case, and that if it were me, I would require a whole other level to be sure enough to kill someone. And I don't think that's a terrible thing. But they had the option to convict on a lesser charge, and they should have. Maybe they are confused as to reasonable doubt, and what constitutes proof, and think that if forensic science cannot answer a question then they cannot convict. I am not.

As this is your neck of the woods, maybe you can answer this for me. Does Florida require a unanimous vote to acquit? We don't. Some states do.

[quasar]

This is a farce. I had the same feeling when they read the OJ Simpson verdict. Caylee had only her mother in the world, with no father.She would have worshipped her mum like a god. Casey repayed her love and trust with contempt. In a few days time she will be back on the dancefloor. This is a bloody travesty and a miscarraige of justice.

I believe that she should definately not have got the death penalty which was too stern.But she should have been done for blatent manslaughter and got 10 or 12 years prison.

[ChainzCooper]

In my view, the jurors are just as guilty as the mother. They had a chance to right and wrong and instead did nothing. One thing I know for sure, the afterlife is going to be bad for all involved
Jordan