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  • Mary Kellys husband

    Apologies if this has been brought up before
    Name: John Davies
    Birth Year: abt 1855
    Event Type: Death
    Event Year: 1881
    Death Age: 26
    Death Date: 29 Aug 1881
    Death Place: Dowlais, Glamorgan, Wales
    Occupation: Collier
    Colliery: Bargoed Longwork
    Owner: Dowlais Iron Co
    Notes: Killed by an explosion of firedamp.



    I note that he was a collier and died in an explosion in Wales as MJK said her husband did to Joe Barnett. Also if she did marry when she was sixteen as she said, 1889, and lived with him for two or three years before he died then it would be around the right time. She would have been 18 at the time, so 26 might be a tad too old for her husband, him being 23 or 4 when they married, but not out of the question. Again apologies if anyone else as posted this info before.

  • #2
    I don't recall anyone mentioning that record before, though plenty have looked for this man.
    Do you mind me asking the source, was it ancestry.com or something similar?

    Have you looked up Dowlais, or nearby Merthyr Tydfil for a marriage certificate?
    Last edited by Wickerman; 07-19-2017, 08:07 PM.
    Regards, Jon S.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Wickerman View Post
      I don't recall anyone mentioning that record before, though plenty have looked for this man.
      Do you mind me asking the source, was it ancestry.com or something similar?

      Have you looked up Dowlais, or nearby Merthyr Tydfil for a marriage certificate?
      Hello Wickerman,I found it in this - Web UK, Coal Mining Accidents and Deaths Index, 1700-1950.
      I did try, quickly, bit busy last night for a marriage certificate but without much success. Perhaps somebody with better resources than me might unearth something. Ps All the Marys i found married to a John Davies seem to have children.
      Last edited by Darryl Kenyon; 07-19-2017, 11:04 PM. Reason: puntuation

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      • #4
        Just found a John Davies 24 years old, so right age who married a Mary Jarman in Merthyr Tydfil on March 23 1878, so around the right time for Mary to be sixteen. Also this Mary's father is called John as Mary said. Interesting. Unfortunately Jarman seems to of English origin surname rather than Irish.
        Last edited by Darryl Kenyon; 07-19-2017, 11:44 PM. Reason: added info

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        • #5
          Finally Dowlais and Merthyr Tydfil, although not in Carmarthenshire are not too far away either

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          • #6
            A couple of starting points in the search for Davies or Davis in mining accidents:

            mining accidents, mining disasters, Welsh pit disasters, welsh mining accidents list,



            At least 33 Davies as well as at least 8 Davis, but only a few that might be a decent fit.

            Also, if you can find a copy of the late Chris Scott's Will the Real Mary Kelly...?, it's a gem. I'm sure there are ongoing attempts to further this research, but I'm not up to speed. There was a James Davies, 18, who died at the Risca colliery on 16th July, 1880. He's probably been looked into and ruled out, but that's just another example.

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            • #7
              Twenty-six is not too old at all, Darryl, as Victorian men often married much younger women. I seen it often in my own family history research.
              Pat D. https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...rt/reading.gif
              ---------------
              Von Konigswald: Jack the Ripper plays shuffleboard. -- Happy Birthday, Wanda June by Kurt Vonnegut, c.1970.
              ---------------

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Pcdunn View Post
                Twenty-six is not too old at all, Darryl, as Victorian men often married much younger women. I seen it often in my own family history research.
                My great grand Ma was 15 (born 1888) he was almost 30.
                G U T

                There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

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                • #9

                  South Wales Daily News, 1 Sept. 1881.
                  Regards, Jon S.

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                  • #10
                    Hi Wickerman, Yes i think this John Davies went under the radar a little because he was the only fatality in the explosion. Here is some info i found
                    Mary Jarman
                    mentioned in the record of John Davies and Mary Jarman
                    Name John Davies
                    Event Type Marriage
                    Event Date 23 Mar 1878
                    Event Place Merthyr Tydfil, Cyfartha, Glamorgan, Wales
                    Gender Male
                    Age 24y
                    Marital Status Single
                    Father's Name John Davies
                    Spouse's Name Mary Jarman
                    Spouse's Marital Status Single
                    Spouse's Father's Name John Jarman Unfortunately this Mary Jarman was 20 or 21 when she married. Two things really, did Mary lie about her age to, say impress suitors etc or did she lie when she married because you had to have consent off your parents until you where 21. What's more frustrating though is there is no record of a Mary or John Jarman in limerick as far as i can tell, maybe they changed their surname when they came to Wales ? Finally i have found a Mary Jarman, Father John, who was born in 1858 in another part of Wales who could be the same one. Although there are quite a few Jarmans for the relevent period. Of course this might not be the marriage of the John Davies who died in the explosion since Davies is quite a common Welsh surname.

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                    • #11
                      Just Found this Name Mary Kelly
                      Event Type Marriage
                      Registration Quarter Apr-May-Jun
                      Registration Year 1878
                      Registration District Merthyr Tydfil
                      County Glamorganshire
                      Event Place Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorganshire, Wales
                      Volume 11A
                      Page 341
                      Line Number 119 Unfortunately it doesn't say who she married

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                      • #12
                        Hi Darryl,

                        Some time ago I went through all the marriages of Mary Kelly or close derivatives in Wales during the relevant period. My findings were summarised in an article in Ripperologist 149.
                        This Mary Kelly married Michael Flynn, a 36 year-old farm labourer on 17 June 1878. Mary was aged 30, and her father was a tailor called Daniel. Both the married couple were illiterate. I found an entry in the 1861 census that probably related to her living in Neath, and discounted her as the Ripper victim on the grounds of age.
                        Best wishes,
                        Paul

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                        • #13
                          Thanks Paul Will catch up on the article

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Darryl Kenyon View Post
                            Finally Dowlais and Merthyr Tydfil, although not in Carmarthenshire are not too far away either
                            They are rather far in Welsh terms, though - about 70 miles... yikes!

                            However, Dowlais and Merthyer are both only about 15 miles from Cwmavon (in the Borough of Torfaen), which is what I suspect Mary Kelly may have said, and which Joe Barnett misheard as "Carmarthen" or "Caernarvon". All three are pronounced similarly by folks from South Wales (C'maah-vun, C'maah-thun ["th" as in "the"] and C'naah-vun).
                            Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                            "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

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                            • #15
                              It's considerably nearer to Cardiff too, for that part of her story.
                              The Cardiff infirmary records might have had a Jarman listed, not a Davies. Chris Scott looked for a Davis/Davies, if I'm not mistaken.
                              Regards, Jon S.

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