Ripper Confidential by Tom Wescott (2017)

[Debra A]

With regard to Margaret Millous, I believe this to be Margaret Mallows - in the records variously as Mallows, Mellows and Millows and forename sometimes Mary or Margaret.

She was a charlady and was married to husband John who was a bricklayer. They had children Maria, John and Esther. I also understand that Esther was interviewed by the BBC in the 1950s/60s re being approached aged 8 by Jack the Ripper (I think more likely aged 4 at the time). Esther was married to Abraham (Arthur) Samuels. I wonder whether a JTR suspect carried out an assault whilst Margaret was actually with her children?

With husband John, they lived in 1881 at 17 Goulstone Court and in 1891 at 5 Harriot Place (close to Fashion Street). John died in the second quarter of 1893 and in September Margaret Mallows was residing at 18 Thrawl Street.

If I have the right lady, Margaret was previously Margaret O'Leary.

Excellent work, MS! I think you are on to something here and interesting info about Esther.

[Robert]

Wow! Interesting stuff, MS!

[MrBarnett]

A great discovery, MS.

Are we talking about the Esther Samuels who died in Barking in 1972?

[MysterySinger]

Yes this is something from Ancestry and Esther Samuels (Mallows) who died in Essex. I suspect it's something passed down and re-told in the family but would suggest there is some truth in it. Some sources suggest she was born in 1880 but Idon't know that that is correct - census returns suggest nearer 1884 or threabouts making her 4 in 1888.

Unlikely that she'd remember the incident terribly well but may have been re-inforced by those around her over the years. Even the interview date seems uncertain.

Anyhow the source is a public story on Ancestry and the details are

ehardy6920 originally shared this on 11 Jun 2010
Was interviewed by the BBC in the 1950s/60s re being approached aged 8 by Jack the Ripper.

[MrBarnett]

Yes this is something from Ancestry and Esther Samuels (Mallows) who died in Essex. I suspect it's something passed down and re-told in the family but would suggest there is some truth in it. Some sources suggest she was born in 1880 but Idon't know that that is correct - census returns suggest nearer 1884 or threabouts making her 4 in 1888.

Unlikely that she'd remember the incident terribly well but may have been re-inforced by those around her over the years. Even the interview date seems uncertain.

Anyhow the source is a public story on Ancestry and the details are

ehardy6920 originally shared this on 11 Jun 2010
Was interviewed by the BBC in the 1950s/60s re being approached aged 8 by Jack the Ripper.

I think she was living in Reede Road, Dagenham in the 1960s. A few minutes walk from my primary school.

[MysterySinger]

That's a bit spooky Mr B. Bet she re-told that Ripper tale to her friends a few times.

[MrBarnett]

That's a bit spooky Mr B. Bet she re-told that Ripper tale to her friends a few times.

I know I would have!

I think Esther spent a month in the Whitechapel Infirmary in 1903, but I can't decipher the malady she was suffering from.

[MysterySinger]

Yes Esther was a shop lady then and living at 6 Brick Lane. The best I can make it out to be is pregnancy but that's unlikely since her daughter was born a couple of months before. Actually it feels a bit weird talking about "real" people in this way - normally they're just a name on a page.

[MrBarnett]

I've trawled through the list of names on the 64/5 electoral registers for Reede Road to see if I recognised anyone, but no luck. I was at the school (Hunters Hall) from 1960 to 1966 and Reede Road was so close it must have been in the catchment area.

[Robert]

I think in 1903 Esther was in the workhouse with an illegitimate son (she had not then married Samuels). The son died the following year.

[Patrick S]

Hey, Tom.

First off, congratulations on the book. "Bank Holiday" was wonderful in that it provided a wealth of new information and perspectives. "Confidential" is more of the same. Clearly, the Buck's Row information is very interesting to me, especially the statement made by Harriett Lilley.

Lilley clearly states that a train went by "AS (she) heard the sounds (painful moan, two or three faint gasps)". Thus, she is very clear that these sounds occurred simultaneous with the train passing that location. You tell us that the Echo reported that the "3.7 out from New-cross" passed at "about half passed three". I wonder if you've been able to find any more specific information with respect the timing of the "3.7"? Any departure/arrival records that may help firm up the time?

In kicking this around with others it was suggested to me that Lilley's statement does nothing to exonerate Charles Cross since he himself provided the timings relative to his own departure time, his route, etc. While that's true, I think it misses the point entirely: Had Cross killed Nichols at 3:30am, why would he still be there at 3:45am? If the train DID pass at 3:30am and we accept that as the time the attack on Nichols occurred, we are now required to believe that Cross killed her, dissected her for a quarter of an hour, was still there (even though he likely knew the spot lay upon a PCs regular beat), when Paul came along at 3:45am, heard his approach, remained close to the body, refused to let Paul pass through the scene as he attempted to do, touched his shoulder, asked him to "come see this woman", examined the body in Paul's company, and then continued on with Paul until they met Mizen in Baker's Row.

I loved the bit on Thain, his cloak, and the horse-slaughterers, as well. I posted a treatise on that very topic some time back, making the point that there were other examples of PCs being perhaps less than honest about their actions that night in and around Buck's Row. Thain is a very obvious example of that. Thus, we must be careful in viewing Mizen's testimony about his actions (being told he was wanted by a PC, not continuing to call up, etc.) as a means to indict the testimony of Cross and/or Paul.

Congratulations again on the fantastic and original work!

[Tom_Wescott]

MysterySinger, you rock! Do you have any exact quotes from this daughter?

Patrick,

Hey, thanks for that! You are obviously digging deep into all matters Buck's Row and I look forward to seeing what all you turn up. Yes, Lilley is a legit witness. Some additional research on the train times would be useful. Lechmerians will simply have to continue dismissing her, as well as Millous/Mallows. They'll say Lilley was 'asleep' and that Millous is a figment of my imagination. As you can imagine, I'm not terribly concerned about it.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[drstrange169]

Hello Patrick,

I did a fair bit of research into the trains from the Eastern Railway a couple of years ago.

The quick upshot is, Eastern were notorious for not sticking to their timetable, so the train could have passed under Buck's Row at any time.

[drstrange169]

Hello Tom,

Just read Paul B's review in Rip. As always a fair and informative review.

Well Done!

[Elamarna]

Hello Patrick,

I did a fair bit of research into the trains from the Eastern Railway a couple of years ago.

The quick upshot is, Eastern were notorious for not sticking to their timetable, so the train could have passed under Buck's Row at any time.

Very interesting Dusty.

Did you happen to find out during that research the scheduled time for the trip from New Cross. Basically is the time quoted by the paper based on the published timetable (the trip was meant to take 23 minutes) or did the paper check what time it actually passed?

Every little bit of data adds to the overall picture.


Steve