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  #11  
Old 12-19-2017, 04:05 PM
Pcdunn Pcdunn is offline
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Hi, Herlock,

I don't know a great deal about the ZK case, but have been following the History Channel documentary series. It is very interesting, and they do claim their code-breaking computer decoded the name of the serial killer, per last week's episode. (Naturally, they saved the reveal for another show, which I haven't seen yet, sigh...)
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  #12  
Old 12-19-2017, 04:11 PM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pcdunn View Post
Hi, Herlock,

I don't know a great deal about the ZK case, but have been following the History Channel documentary series. It is very interesting, and they do claim their code-breaking computer decoded the name of the serial killer, per last week's episode. (Naturally, they saved the reveal for another show, which I haven't seen yet, sigh...)
Hi Pat,

I think that the name they come up with is Lawrence Kane and a bit of googling has confirmed that the name ĎKaneí was in the cypher.

I have a look on here tomorrow and see what the experts say.

http://zodiackillersite.com/
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  #13  
Old 12-20-2017, 10:36 AM
Harry D Harry D is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
Iíve just read Graysmithís Zodiac Unmasked after becoming interested watching the first 3 episodes of The History Channels ĎCase Closed.í

Iím a complete Zodiac novice but I have to say there appears to be a staggering amount of Ďpointersí to Arthur Leigh Allen? Iíve just read that many consider Graysmith unreliable. Has Allen now been dismissed/disproven as a suspect? Has this History Channel series uncovered the killer?

Anybody know?
Allen wasn't a match for the DNA, handwriting, or the finger/palm prints.
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  #14  
Old 12-20-2017, 02:14 PM
John Wheat John Wheat is offline
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Originally Posted by barnflatwyngarde View Post
I have always been surprised and frustrated that there is no definitive, or even competent, book dealing with the Zodiac case.
Come to think of it there is no definitive book on the Ripper murders and a number of books seem to be lacking in competence. Why is this?
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  #15  
Old 12-20-2017, 03:15 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Come to think of it there is no definitive book on the Ripper murders
If folks were asked to nominate a definitive Ripper book, I bet most would unhesitatingly say "Sugden"
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  #16  
Old 12-20-2017, 03:15 PM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
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Originally Posted by Harry D View Post
Allen wasn't a match for the DNA, handwriting, or the finger/palm prints.
Is that conclusive Harry? Didnít Graysmith mention the fact that as Allen was ambidextrous this could explain the handwriting not matching? Iím definately not arguing the point as i just donít know.

Is Kane considered the likeliest suspect?
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  #17  
Old 12-20-2017, 03:21 PM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
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Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
If folks were asked to nominate a definitive Ripper book, I bet most would unhesitatingly say "Sugden"
Hello Sam,

Long time no speak Iím sure that youíre right that Sugden would get the nod, my only criticism would be that he says that Chapman is the likeliest suspects?! Obviously Begg and Rumbelow would get a mention. I always wished that someone could do a ripper book with the same level of research and detail as Vincent Bugliosiís Reclaiming History (on the JFK assassination.) If youíve got twenty years to spare Sam
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  #18  
Old 12-20-2017, 03:25 PM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
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Iíve just started reading ĎIn The Wake Of The Butcherí by Badal on the Cleveland Torso Murders. It was recommended to me by Howard on the JTRForum. Would this be considered the difinitive book on that case? Itís the first one that Iíve read. I donít mean the first book that Iíve read by the way
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  #19  
Old 12-20-2017, 05:06 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
Iíve just read Graysmithís Zodiac Unmasked after becoming interested watching the first 3 episodes of The History Channels ĎCase Closed.í

Iím a complete Zodiac novice but I have to say there appears to be a staggering amount of Ďpointersí to Arthur Leigh Allen? Iíve just read that many consider Graysmith unreliable. Has Allen now been dismissed/disproven as a suspect? Has this History Channel series uncovered the killer?

Anybody know?
Hi HS
I have both Graysmith books. The first one Zodiac is better than the one you read. he gets a little convoluted and hard to follow in the unmasked one. The first one is more concise. Hes reliable enough, a little biased to Allen of course but IMHO for good cause:

He was in the immediate area at the time.
Incriminating evidence was found in his home (same typewriter, explosives etc.)
He owned a zodiac watch.(this "coincidence" alone!)
He basically confessed to two people who confirm.
Bloody knife in car after LB murders.
He was former military.
He had a (bad)fascination with children-same as Z.
He came up as a suspect/POI twice independently by police (this is a bigee for me).
Surviving victim IDed him.(another bigee)
He fits the profile of thrill killer/"lovers lane" SK to a T. Loser, loner, no relationships with women (see Son of Sam).
He fits witness descriptions. (to add-I don't know what all this talk of he was bald-photos of him from the time frame show receding hair line with widows peak).

obviously theres more, but these are the main ones for me.

Regards to the exculpitary evidence:

The zodiac was a meticulous ADA type who created complicated codes, bomb systems and letters. He said he would cover his fingertips with glue. He was seen wiping down the cab. I think its fair to assess he could(and would) also then disguise his handwriting and leave no finger prints.

as far as DNA: Too early in the science and only partial DNA found anyway. He may have been wearing gloves and or used a sponge pad for envelopes/stamps as many people do anyway. The DNA could have been anyone who ever handled those items.
DNA evidence way to weak to rule anyone out based on it IMHO.

I'm not convinced he was the Z though, at about 80%. and definitely not disproven.


Quote:
Has this History Channel series uncovered the killer?
no. theyre focusing on two suspects now-Lawrence Kane and Ross Sullivan.

Kane really has nothing going for him and frankly I don't even know why he is a suspect.

Ross Sullivan has a bit more going for him. he worked at the library where bates was killed and the staff there thought he was her killer. Newly found handwriting of Ross seems to have a lot of similarities with the Z. also apparently the show has found new DNA evidence at scene of crimes(on bates pants and on gloves found in stines cab) and looks like they will try to match to Z and possibly Ross. I'm skeptical about ross mainly because they cant even tie him to SF area.
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  #20  
Old 12-20-2017, 05:12 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
Hello Sam,

Long time no speak Iím sure that youíre right that Sugden would get the nod, my only criticism would be that he says that Chapman is the likeliest suspects?! Obviously Begg and Rumbelow would get a mention. I always wished that someone could do a ripper book with the same level of research and detail as Vincent Bugliosiís Reclaiming History (on the JFK assassination.) If youíve got twenty years to spare Sam
Hi HS

Quote:
Iím sure that youíre right that Sugden would get the nod, my only criticism would be that he says that Chapman is the likeliest suspects?!
that's because he only looked at the four suspects mentioned by senior police:Ostrog, Druitt, Koz and chapman.

His research showed ostrog was in jail in france, for the first time eliminating ostrog for sure.

he pretty much debunked druitt and Koz and favors chapman.

I still think koz is possible and I agree with him that chapman is strongest of the four.

I have Koz and chapman in my top tier of six least weak suspects.
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quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

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