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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > "The Royal Conspiracy"

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  #11  
Old 09-07-2010, 03:34 PM
Jason Jason is offline
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i know what you mean Graham but i have definitely heard from somewhere that at the time it was being whispered in corners that it was something involving a royal ...if i could find where i saw it then i will definitely post such a link. I dont know if people were as obsessed with conspiracy theories as they are today but it may be the birth of CT's in 1888. The one thing i will always believe is that if there were any semblance of truth in this theory then the Royal Household would have always tried to cover it up, whether they would have gone to the extremes of having those in the knowledge killed to cover it up totally is another matter. But then again, if something is worth doing its worth doing well !!
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  #12  
Old 09-07-2010, 04:10 PM
bolo bolo is offline
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Hello Jason, all,

Thomas Stowell's article in the periodical The Criminologist from 1970 most probably was the starting point of the "core mythos" of the Royal Conspiracy with Prince Albert Victor, Gull, etc., but in my opinion, there were some precursors that paved its way, namely Leonard Matters' book The Mystery of Jack the Ripper from 1929. In his book, Matters came up with a certain Dr Stanley who went on a killing spree after his son caught syphilis from one of the victims. As far as I know, Matters did not mention any involvement of the Royals in the case but as Stowell followed a similar approach (just with a different doc and a Royal patient), Matters may have inspired him to do some more research in this direction.

Regards,

Boris
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  #13  
Old 09-07-2010, 04:17 PM
Jason Jason is offline
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Thanks Boris, thats more than possible to be a source.
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  #14  
Old 09-07-2010, 04:43 PM
Graham Graham is offline
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Hi Jason & Boris,

1] I should think people in the LVP loved conspiracy theories as much as we do - Lincoln's Assassination attracted such theories (and still does) almost from the start. And then of course in the JtR Case there was Queen Victoria's supposedly unprecendented plea to the authorities to catch the swine, this before the Canonical 5 had all been bumped off, I believe, starting rumours there and then that she knew something about what was going on in Whitechapel....

Other Historical Happenings which had tongues wagging at the time must include:

- Death of King William Rufus
- The Princes In The Tower
- The Gunpowder Plot.

I'm a sucker for conspiracy theories, me!

2] I once read Leonard Matters' book (and wish I had copy) and found it rather a good read, even though not terribly plausible. From what I gather about Stowell he was highly suspect even as far as known historical facts were concerned.

Graham
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  #15  
Old 09-07-2010, 05:12 PM
bolo bolo is offline
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Hi Graham,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham View Post
1] I should think people in the LVP loved conspiracy theories as much as we do - Lincoln's Assassination attracted such theories (and still does) almost from the start. And then of course in the JtR Case there was Queen Victoria's supposedly unprecendented plea to the authorities to catch the swine, this before the Canonical 5 had all been bumped off, I believe, starting rumours there and then that she knew something about what was going on in Whitechapel....
yes, I'm also convinced that certain rumours started to spread in the LVP already, especially in light of the political climate of the time. For some of the radicals and socialists of the LVP, the murders must have come in handy as proof for the "nemesis of neglect", caused by the apparent indifference of those in power towards the living conditions of the working class and the poor. It's just a small step from blaming the state leaders and Royals for the squalid living conditions of many East Enders to actually suspecting a member or confidant of the Royal family of the murders, all the more because people already thought lowly of some members of the Royal family like Prince Albert Victor or his father.

This, coupled with the sensationalism of the yellow press (The Star, etc.), must have offered fertile ground for conspiracy theorists of all kinds and classes.

Regards,

Boris
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Last edited by bolo : 09-07-2010 at 05:22 PM.
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  #16  
Old 09-07-2010, 06:14 PM
Jason Jason is offline
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we have uncovered at least 3 conspiracy theorists from this thread !! i was sure there was at one in here so to get a further two as well as myself is a result !!
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  #17  
Old 09-07-2010, 06:47 PM
bolo bolo is offline
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Hi Jason,

I'm interested in the mechanics and and inner workings of conspiracy theories but only from a sociological or maybe even philosophical angle, I'm not a conspiracy theorist myself.

Regards,

Boris
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  #18  
Old 09-07-2010, 09:46 PM
Simon Wood Simon Wood is offline
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Hi Boris,

Conspiracies are intricate mechanisms and very different from cover-ups which are official arse-covering exercises rushed into effect when things go awry. Conspiracies set out to deceive. Amongst other things they involve a game plan, a strict hierarchical compartmentalization of information [those in the know vs. those not in the know], an official policy of "no comment", careful news management plus the spread of misinformation [a.k.a. disinformation]. Conspiracies are also evolutionary, changing shape and form as day-to-day circumstances dictate. It's an effective formula. All the while nobody outside the information loop is aware of what is really going on and just believes what they're told. And then there's human nature. Conspiracies work so well because in general people cannot bring themselves to believe in them.

In our particular sphere of interest a fact that cannot be ignored is that, in many different ways, shapes and forms, the Whitechapel murders feature all these conspiratorial ingredients. For the open-minded they're all there for the looking. Perhaps if we put them all together we'll discover the game plan. It sure beats trying to identify someone who never existed in the first place.

Regards,

Simon
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  #19  
Old 09-08-2010, 01:15 AM
bolo bolo is offline
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Hi Simon,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Wood View Post
In our particular sphere of interest a fact that cannot be ignored is that, in many different ways, shapes and forms, the Whitechapel murders feature all these conspiratorial ingredients. For the open-minded they're all there for the looking. Perhaps if we put them all together we'll discover the game plan. It sure beats trying to identify someone who never existed in the first place.
well put, that's right why I'm interested in possible "Ripper" conspiracies and the theories surrounding them. A conspiracy is a meta-puzzle where the single tiles consist of puzzles of their own, solving a puzzle-in-a-puzzle like that needs more than just adding one tile to another, it's all about the viewpoint. If you stand too close or look at it from the wrong angle, you will only see a thin line or nothing at all, if you stand too far, the details will be blurred and you'll only get an abstract picture.

Standing too close also involves the danger of getting sucked into a conspiracy. It's a slow but steady process and some people won't notice it until it's too late, that's why a reality check every now and then is essential.

Years ago, I read Chaos Theory in the Social Sciences: Foundations and Applications (1997) by L. Douglas Kiel and Euel Elliot. After initial problems with its quite heavy mathematical background, I became fascinated by the topic and started to apply what I had read to various fields of interests, among them the conspiracy theories surrounding the East End murders. I sat up a theory that someone who is not a member of the inner circle of a conspiracy (someone not in-the-know) always takes up the position of an interested but basically clueless bystander. The events that take place before his eyes mostly seem random to him, and this is the point where certain aspects of chaos theory could help to reverse-engineer the game plan as you call it.

For example, if we view the Royal Conspiracy (or any other conspiracy theory for that matter) as a complex system of events and strange attractors within the phase space (a mathematical spatial complex where all possible states of a system are represented), it would be possible to logically describe certain events and even "predict in retrospect" possible outcomes and motivations...

...alright, I'll stop now.

Who knows, maybe the key to the case lies in advanced mathematics.

Regards,

Boris
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  #20  
Old 09-11-2010, 07:15 PM
curious curious is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bolo View Post
Hello Jason, all,

Thomas Stowell's article in the periodical The Criminologist from 1970 most probably was the starting point of the "core mythos" of the Royal Conspiracy with Prince Albert Victor, Gull, etc.

Boris
Hello,
Tracing that old chestnut must be very difficult, but the theory existed before 1970.

I know this because: I graduated from high school in 1967 (in Tennessee in the USA).

In junior high school, say 1960, '61 or 1962, I had a history teacher Miss Brown (I believe Betty was her first name, but am at the moment no completely remembering). Well, Miss Brown was fascinated by the British royal family.

The claim that Queen Victoria's grandson was really Jack the Ripper was one of her stories.

Naturally, I have no idea what her sources were, but I do know the theory pre-dated 1970. Beyond that, I know nothing.

just my two cents.

curious
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