JTR - Cunning, Careful, or Lucky?

[GUT]

G'day Fisherman

I hear what you say about 70 mins.

I was going off the absolute minimum since t had been touched, ie if the organs were on it as just the least I could see.

I know from seeing murder sights that in pools of blood you see some drying after just 30 mins so on a cloth I would not anticipate t being still wet even that long after, unless there was a lot of blood on it and it not merely being used to clean his hands.

[GUT]

That was poorly written, but I hope you can follow it.

[PC Fitzroy-Toye]

PC Fitzroy-Toye:

I work with my hands alot in the manner of cars and some butchery...

HOLD IT! Some butchery?

So maybe you could provide an answer to the question whether a piece of cloth that is dipped in blood will stay wet for seventy minutes or more ...?

All the best,
Fisherman

Well I have never tested the Idear but with say low temps and maybe a bit of moisture in the air and being a mixture of more than just blood maybe it could stay still wet ,but Ill get back to you on that as my sister is a nurse and has asisted in ops so would know more, God knows how Im going to approach that one! I can imagine how thats going to pan out, "Hi sis how long would a cloth soaked in blood and fecal matter take to dry?" she will think Iv truly lost it!

[Fisherman]

GUT and PC Fitzroy-Toye; thanks, both of you for your input!

And yes, PC - my interest in the Ripper has had me asking the oddest of questions and performing the strangest of experiments at times. It goes with the territory ...

All the best,
Fisherman

[GUT]

G'day Fisherman

The weirder the better.

[GUT]

G'day PC Fitzroy-Toye

I hope that if you and your sister do the experiment you let us know the results.

I do however see one huge variable, the amount of blood.

[PC Fitzroy-Toye]

GUT and PC Fitzroy-Toye; thanks, both of you for your input!

And yes, PC - my interest in the Ripper has had me asking the oddest of questions and performing the strangest of experiments at times. It goes with the territory ...

All the best,
Fisherman

How about a "the weidest ripper experiments" thread think its really up you steet Fisheman!

[PC Fitzroy-Toye]

I hope that if you and your sister do the experiment you let us know the results.

I do however see one huge variable, the amount of blood.

Thanks gut have to get the cloth right and I think pigs blood would do not sure whos providing the fecal matter might have to toss a coin on that one!

[Fisherman]

How about a "the weidest ripper experiments" thread think its really up you steet Fisheman!

That will be about right, IŽd say. Regretfully.

Fisherman

[Sunbury]

no running with scissors

How about a "the weidest ripper experiments" thread think its really up you steet Fisheman!

Great idea, but I think the rules better specify no actual killings

[PC Fitzroy-Toye]

Great idea, but I think the rules better specify no actual killings

Good idear ,so whos up for doing the MJK murder mock up using a pig carcass and a manakin?

[PC Fitzroy-Toye]

That will be about right, IŽd say. Regretfully.

Fisherman

Regretfully why so? I have a very fine collection of odd people that I know theres; "J" an embalmer (doctor death), Gordon a christain mystic and mason, Jake a demonologist, my sister the nurse who is odd but normal, and my mother is bloody odd ho and did taxidermy for a time! so if your a bit odd your be in fine company when it comes to me and if your weird enough your make the collection

[Mondegreen]

I suspect he had connections to the area or was a local. If this is the case, he could have taken into account what he knew of the area when getting away with his crimes.

I'd say that's cunning but by itself it doesn't sound like a special gifted degree of cunning. If any of you have ever gone home late at night (if you haven't, imagine yourself doing that), you probably took into account certain factors when choosing your route. I'm talking about things like which streets would be more frequented and by what kinds of people, which streets had better security, which streets are well-lit, which streets would take you there more quickly. Then you combined all these factors in your head and made a decision. If he knew the area well, it would have been like this, only in reverse.

If he had absolutely no connection to the area and simply got it into his head to start going there to commit murder, then all the preliminary research would have taken a special level of obsession. Maybe even cunning as well, by probably taking a few trips there in person to understand it better while not attracting much attention.

As to being careful, that's possible too. We don't know if in-between the murders there were any aborted attempts. I doubt that men going to semi-deserted, dark areas with women was rare. Perhaps he even did this in-between murders but nobody caught on because nothing happened on those occasions, because of him judging that the opportunity would be too risky.

On the other hand, I think that to get away with it, there was a lot of luck on his side. The locations he picked out weren't the easiest, as people have pointed out before, in some of them there was a chance that someone looking out of the window or going outside could have run into the murder taking place.

If we believe that the witness descriptions were accurate and were of him, then I'd say that's luck and probably some care too. Care to not stand out too much and presumably not let anyone take a close look at his facial features, luck that nobody did so the descriptions we have are very generic and could apply to many men in London during that time period.

Some posts here have said that he must have been clever and smooth-talking to get his victims to trust him. Maybe, maybe not. We don't know what individual people consider trustworthy or not. Off the top of my head, I can think of a few situations where I thought someone seemed untrustworthy at first sight but others disagreed with me. A lot of it comes down to personal beliefs and associations. If the victims also had a certain idea in mind based on the reports they'd heard and he didn't fit that, if they were desperate enough, or simply if they'd met him once before and hadn't been harmed, they may have been misled to believe they were safe.

As to whether he planned out the murders in advance, I believe he did to a certain extent. He probably knew what he was doing but also left some details to chance. Maybe he even felt thrilled to play cat-and-mouse with the police and feel as though he was one-upping everyone else.

[GUT]

G'day Mondegreen

Welcome.

A well thought out first post.

Hope you enjoy your time here.

[Mondegreen]

Welcome.

A well thought out first post.

Hope you enjoy your time here.

Thank you!