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Interesting Whitehall Murderer sighting?

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  • Interesting Whitehall Murderer sighting?

    Hi all,

    Just came across this while browsing through information and I thought it sounds like a real clue to the Torso found at the new Police office construction site...Does anyone know if anything more is available about this?

    "The police are in possession of what is likely to prove a most important piece of evidence in connection with the discovery of the mutilated body in a cell of the new police buildings at Westminster. It has been supplied by an inhabitant of Llanelly, of South Wales. He happened to be in Cannon-row on the Saturday before the body was found, and at an hour when the place was practically deserted. His attention was at that moment directed to a man who climbed over a hoarding into the ground whereon the new police office is being erected, and where afterwards the body was discovered. Two other men were with him, who had a barrow on which was a bundle. The whole proceeding seemed curious, and afterwards, when the remains were found, the South Walian "put two and two together," handed in his information, and also a description of the man. The result is that a workman has since been interviewed in the vicinity, who admits having been on the spot the day in question, though his business there is not very clear. Beyond this the police, it is said, succeed in obtaining no clue. "

    I did find this interesting in Bonds comments too..a warning that it concerns the exact injuries performed on the deceased's body.....

    "The trunk was that of a woman of considerable statue and well nourished. The head had been separated from the trunk by means of a saw. The lower limbs and the pelvis had been removed in the same way. The length of the trunk was seventeen inches, and the circumference of the chest thirty-five and a half inches and the waist twenty-eight and a half inches. The parts were decomposed, and we could not discover any wounds. The breasts were large and prominent. The arms had been removed at the shoulder joints by several incisions, the cuts having apparently been made obliquely from above downwards, and then around the arm. Over the body were clearly defined marks, where string had been tied. It appeared to have been wrapped up in a very skillful manner. We did not find marks indicating that the woman had borne any children. On opening the chest we find that the rib cartilages were not ossified, that one lung was healthy, but that the left lung showed signs of severe pleurisy. The substance of the heart was healthy, and there were indications that the woman had not died either of suffocation or of drowning. The liver and stomach, kidneys, and spleen were normal. The uterus was absent."

    It seems uteri were real collectibles that year.

    My best regards all.

  • #2
    So where is it saying the body was cut from?? Under the belly button? If so the Uterus may have come out when the cutting was going on.

    It is intersting to note that there is a suggestion that the body was that of a tall well made woman.

    Does the non-ossification of the cartilidge mean that she was young or is it a reference to being free from disease?

    This is interesting!! Thanks for sharing.
    In order to know virtue, we must first aquaint ourselves with vice!

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    • #3
      Originally posted by KatBradshaw View Post
      So where is it saying the body was cut from?? Under the belly button? If so the Uterus may have come out when the cutting was going on.

      It is intersting to note that there is a suggestion that the body was that of a tall well made woman.

      Does the non-ossification of the cartilidge mean that she was young or is it a reference to being free from disease?

      This is interesting!! Thanks for sharing.
      Hi Kate,

      Im no medical terminology guy so Ill let someone else try the "ossifications" ......but on the first point its stated that the liver, stomach, kidney and spleen were normal...it doesnt say precisely at what point the body was cut, just that the lower limbs and pelvis had been sawed off at the trunk. The length of the trunk was 17 inches. The arms were cut free at the sockets and the head was severed with a saw.

      Why would he mention the uterus specifically as missing, if as you said, it may have been part of the amputated body. Good question I think.

      Cheers Kate, all the best

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi Michael, Kate,

        Kate, you may be right about 'accidental' loss of the uterus in this case.

        Not only were the pelvic organs missing but actually the whole of the pelvis, separated at the 4th lumbar vertebra.
        Here is a link to a summary of the notes done by Bond and Hebbert in the torso cases, that I made and posted a while back.

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        • #5
          If I remember correctly, Michael, these mysterious men proved to be shift workers retrieving some tools from the building site, but it does show that the site was accessible to those outside despite the high boarding around it.

          Comment


          • #6
            AP, it later turned out that the site could be accessed via a gate with a piece of string attached to the latch. For some reason police and workmen thought that someone would have had to have known how the latch operated to gain access....not rocket science though was it?!

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            • #7
              Ossification of Cartilidge.

              I found this...


              Calcification of the costal cartilages is a subject of interest, as, with the possible exception of the pharyngeal cartilages, it is unique in showing ossification taking place throughout adult life. It is shown that contrary to commonly accepted views, the calcification is not perichondral, but is central, and is in the nature of a true ossification.

              This ossification is unrelated to disease or habitus, though disease may play a part by interfering with the normal blood calcium balance. It is indicated that costal cartilage calcification is a physiological response of a connective tissue to the strains imposed upon it by muscular action, and it is suggested that, in man, the ossification of the rib cartilages may, in fact, be a reaction towards greater rigidity of the anterior chest wall following the assumption of upright posture. The biochemical aspects of ossification are considered, with reference of cartilage calcification in adult life.


              So maybe this ossification was down to the wearing of restrictive corsets in the fashion of the LVP.
              In order to know virtue, we must first aquaint ourselves with vice!

              Comment


              • #8
                Wasting me breath as usual

                Comment


                • #9
                  Wow so the man was identified & questioned ? Cap'n michael says the men were shift workers getting tools from the cellar. There is a strong resemblance to the story richardson provided about checking to the padlock at 29 hanbury a cellar because tools has been stolen. Tools had also been stolen at from the whitehall cellar. Could there be a connection?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Debra A View Post
                    Hi Michael, Kate,

                    Kate, you may be right about 'accidental' loss of the uterus in this case.

                    Not only were the pelvic organs missing but actually the whole of the pelvis, separated at the 4th lumbar vertebra.
                    Here is a link to a summary of the notes done by Bond and Hebbert in the torso cases, that I made and posted a while back.

                    http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=250
                    Thanks for the link Debra your research is very interesting.

                    Cheers John

                    Comment

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