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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Barnett, Joseph

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  #11  
Old 09-07-2008, 11:32 PM
Graham Graham is offline
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Hi Richard,

Never forget that pre-forensic science about the only way a murderer could be nailed was by confession (numerically far and away the most common) or being caught red-handed. Victorian detective-novels and Sherlock Holmes notwithstanding, very few murderers were caught via deduction.

Cheers,

Graham
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  #12  
Old 09-08-2008, 12:04 AM
Glenn Lauritz Andersson Glenn Lauritz Andersson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham View Post
I've always felt that whoever dispatched MJK was a practised killer and mutilator - which Barnett certainly was not.
Hi Graham,

I have to protest against that statement since other crimes very clearly have showed us that mutilation murders on such level as the one performed on MJK or on similar level, does NOT need to be committed by 'practiced' killers and mutilators.
On the contrary, the mutilations on Kelly is pretty much a sloppy job and simple butchery and mostly these types of murders are done by people with no prior crimes on their records. It is a total misconception that such deeds must have been performed by people with previous experience and I would have hoped that this myth was destroyed by now.

All the best
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  #13  
Old 09-08-2008, 12:08 AM
Graham Graham is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Lauritz Andersson View Post
Hi Graham,

I have to protest against that statement since other crimes very clearly have showed us that mutilation murders on such level as the one performed on MJK or on similar level, does NOT need to be committed by 'practiced' killers and mutilators.
On the contrary, the mutilations on Kelly is pretty much a sloppy job and simple butchery and mostly these types of murders are done by people with no prior crimes on their records. It is a total misconception that such deeds must have been performed by people with previous experience and I would have hoped that this myth was destroyed by now.

All the best
Hi Glenn,

Matter of opinion here, I think.

I'd like to know of any other killer who murdered just once yet inflicted the same degree of mutilation on his/her victim as Kelly's killer did on her. I've always felt that the Ripper/Whitechapel murderer 'worked his way up' to Kelly, and had the huge benefit of privacy and, I guess, more or less unlimited time.

Cheers,

Graham
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  #14  
Old 09-08-2008, 12:28 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham View Post
I've always felt the Ripper 'worked his way up' to Kelly, and had the huge benefit of privacy and more or less unlimited time...
...and, lest we forget, reasonably good light. The comparative warmth would have kept his fingers supple too.
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  #15  
Old 09-08-2008, 12:45 AM
Roy Corduroy Roy Corduroy is offline
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Welcome CraveDisorder to the discussion,

If Barnett was suspicious, why didn't the police arrest him and try him in court for murder? Like Tom Sadler.

The same would be true for Kidney, Barnett, Fleming, yes even Hutch if you want to go there. That the detectives would be tickled pink to have an easy-to-identify domestic suspect. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe (as Glenn said) they blew it.

I would think it would be "Book-em' Dano"

Roy

Last edited by Roy Corduroy : 09-08-2008 at 12:47 AM. Reason: spell
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  #16  
Old 09-08-2008, 12:53 AM
Glenn Lauritz Andersson Glenn Lauritz Andersson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham View Post
I've always felt that the Ripper/Whitechapel murderer 'worked his way up' to Kelly, and had the huge benefit of privacy and, I guess, more or less unlimited time.
Oh come on, Graham.
Not that old tale again. This speculation seems to have been become a 'fact' that everyone's repeating like a parrot. No offense intended.

All the best
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Last edited by Glenn Lauritz Andersson : 09-08-2008 at 01:02 AM.
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  #17  
Old 09-08-2008, 01:00 AM
Glenn Lauritz Andersson Glenn Lauritz Andersson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy Corduroy View Post
If Barnett was suspicious, why didn't the police arrest him and try him in court for murder? Like Tom Sadler.

The same would be true for Kidney, Barnett, Fleming, yes even Hutch if you want to go there. That the detectives would be tickled pink to have an easy-to-identify domestic suspect. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe (as Glenn said) they blew it.
Barnett was indeed 'interrogated' and possibly treated like a suspect (in contrast to the cases of Kidney and Fleming this is rather evident from the files), according tohimself for four hours. However, since we don't have any information about what was said during the interview it is impossible today to establish whether his alibi held up or not.
He could just as well have been released because there was no evidence against him. Let's remember that this was 1888. As I told you on that other thread, Roy, even if the suspect couldn't produce an alibi you would still have the issue of actually proving someone's guilt when you have neither forensic science or a confession.

As for Fleming, there is not one slightest indication of that he ever was tracked down or investigated. Most likely they didn't find him since he had no firm address (he lived at lodging houses) and he possibly had started to use a false name (although we don't know exactlky when he strated calling himself John Evans).

All the best
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Last edited by Glenn Lauritz Andersson : 09-08-2008 at 01:29 AM.
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  #18  
Old 09-08-2008, 01:15 AM
Brenda Brenda is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy Corduroy View Post
If Barnett was suspicious, why didn't the police arrest him and try him in court for murder? Like Tom Sadler.
It is my belief that he simply didn't arouse suspicions when he was questioned. Maybe he played the grieving boyfriend part so well that he was deemed sincere. More than once it has been stated on these boards that he couldn't have done something like that to the woman he loved, which is just plain wrong. Maybe the police bought into that myth though.

Barnett had to have been under incredible stress. His whole life had fallen apart. He'd lost his very good job, his partner, and his home - everything. We're not really sure how he lost his job, but if it had anything to do with Mary, it wouldn't be hard to imagine that he came to blame her for ALL of his problems, as it seems they all happened because of her. People have lost their minds and killed under circumstances much less stressful than what Barnett was facing.

We'll never know whether he killed Mary or the others. But it is NOT AN IMPOSSIBILITY that he did kill the others. If someone is not convinced by that theory, that's fine, but in the end its nothing more than their personal opinion. My previous link before shows that someone killed other people to satiate the need to kill their significant other, so it is not an impossibility that another person would have felt the same way, or acted the same way in the history of the world.

The bottom line for me is, Joe Barnett had to have been either freaking out or very close to freaking out from stress. If he doesn't set off some major alarm bells for you, I urge you to rethink it again.
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  #19  
Old 09-08-2008, 01:32 AM
Glenn Lauritz Andersson Glenn Lauritz Andersson is offline
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Brenda,

I truly doubt that the killer of MJK also killed the others, but apart from that I agree with most of what you say in your last post above. Many good points there.

All the best
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  #20  
Old 09-08-2008, 02:32 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Lauritz Andersson View Post
Oh come on, Graham.
Not that old tale again. This speculation seems to have been become a 'fact' that everyone's repeating like a parrot.
I presume, Glenn, you mean that part of Graham's post that referred to the apparent escalation in violence up to and including Kelly - rather than the objective fact that her killer had more privacy and, in Graham's words, "more or less unlimited time" in 13 Miller's Court, than the killer of the previous victims had enjoyed.
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