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  #4711  
Old 04-11-2018, 04:09 AM
OneRound OneRound is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickB View Post
In a previous book Simpson referred to the bullets as 0.38.
http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?p=368455

So he did change his mind - from 0.38 to 0.32. The absence of a comment from him that he made this change deliberately suggests it was simply an error.
Hi Nick - I know next to nothing about guns but my immediate inclination here is just to regard it as an error on Simpson's part.

Whilst us posters remain continually interested in a particular subject, it needs to be realised that the same fascination does not automatically persist for those who were closely involved at the time. Thus mistakes through memory lapses can and do occur. Whilst of interest, such mistakes run the risk of having their significance overplayed.

Best regards,

OneRound
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  #4712  
Old 04-11-2018, 04:29 AM
Spitfire Spitfire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickB View Post
In a previous book Simpson referred to the bullets as 0.38.
http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?p=368455

So he did change his mind - from 0.38 to 0.32. The absence of a comment from him that he made this change deliberately suggests it was simply an error.

I have to hand Prof. Keith Simpson's book "Forty Years of Murder" and it is quite clear on pp 161-7 that it was Michael Gregston who was shot on the 23 August 1961 with a calibre .32 bullet, on the other hand, Michael Gregsten was proved at Hanratty's trial to have been shot with a .38 bullet. I'm sure we have been over this before. Gregston shot with a .32, Gregsten with a .38, two entirely different people shot with two different bullets.
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  #4713  
Old 04-11-2018, 05:35 AM
OneRound OneRound is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
I have to hand Prof. Keith Simpson's book "Forty Years of Murder" and it is quite clear on pp 161-7 that it was Michael Gregston who was shot on the 23 August 1961 with a calibre .32 bullet, on the other hand, Michael Gregsten was proved at Hanratty's trial to have been shot with a .38 bullet. I'm sure we have been over this before. Gregston shot with a .32, Gregsten with a .38, two entirely different people shot with two different bullets.
Hi again folks - whilst applauding the penetrative wit and biting humour of Spitfire which must come close to rivalling that of The Krankies, his post does show that Simpson's book and reflections were not entirely error free.

Best regards,

OneRound
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  #4714  
Old 04-11-2018, 02:01 PM
Graham Graham is offline
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All of this is simply going over old ground, which the conspiracy-theorists amongst us are keen to continue occupying......

Against JH's accent being a giveaway at the ID parade, Acott actually suggested, with regard to JH's somewhat noticeable hair, that all members of the parade should wear surgeon's caps to hide their hair. Very fair suggestion, I'd say. However. Emmanuel Kleinmann refused this on the grounds that it would make JH's icy-blue eyes even more noticeable than they were. I do wonder if, because of this, he may have ended up on the carpet in front of Sherrard's desk.

Graham
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  #4715  
Old 04-11-2018, 04:16 PM
OneRound OneRound is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham View Post
All of this is simply going over old ground, which the conspiracy-theorists amongst us are keen to continue occupying......

Against JH's accent being a giveaway at the ID parade, Acott actually suggested, with regard to JH's somewhat noticeable hair, that all members of the parade should wear surgeon's caps to hide their hair. Very fair suggestion, I'd say. However. Emmanuel Kleinmann refused this on the grounds that it would make JH's icy-blue eyes even more noticeable than they were. I do wonder if, because of this, he may have ended up on the carpet in front of Sherrard's desk.

Graham
Hi Graham - are you sure that surgeon's caps were not worn on the parades due to Kleinmann's refusal? I thought it was down to the officers organising the parades not acting on Acott's suggestion and Kleinmann being off the ball and failing to pick up on it. That's my take from the Court of Appeal's 2002 judgement.

The Court of Appeal also speculated that Acott's suggestion may not have been to do with unfairness being caused to Hanratty by his stand-out hair colour but concern on his (Acott's) part that Valerie Storie and those who claimed to see the driver of the car would fail to identify Hanratty as his hair was now a different colour from when they saw it. I cannot buy into that latter concern. Given the unique colouring (''carrot amongst a bunch of bananas'' etc), Valerie Storie and the others must have cottoned on that Hanratty was the Police's suspect. Otherwise, someone with such a different hair colour would never have been on the parades.

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OneRound
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  #4716  
Old 04-12-2018, 02:32 AM
Graham Graham is offline
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Hi OR,

message from Acott to DSI Barron of Bedfordshire police, per Woffinden, undated, but obviously shortly prior to the ID Parade on 13 October:

Please make arrangements....for witnesses to attend an ID Parade at Bedford....Also make arrangements....for ID Parade to be held at Stoke Mandeville Hospital on 14 October. [Description of age and appearance of men required] Skull caps to be obtained - suggest those worn in operating theatres would be suitable.

Woffinden says that Kleinmann was aware of the request/suggestion for skull caps, but took no action, and Woffinden says that Kleinmann clearly wished to avoid greater attention being drawn to Hanratty's distinctive eyes. So, in fairness, Acott did suggest skull caps and they were rejected. Although I don't see Kleinmann as anything like a Perry Mason, I feel sure he made the decision to decline skull-caps for reasons he felt were justified. Seems like he made a big mistake. He was also an hour late for the Stoke Mandeville parade, which may or may not be a pointer to his overall efficiency.

Another lesser point is the fact that Hanratty insisted he be given clothes to wear which were different to his usual dark suit, and this requested was agreed to. He was subsequently loaned other clothes including a sports jacket and cord trousers.

Graham
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  #4717  
Old 04-12-2018, 03:12 AM
Alfie Alfie is offline
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Default The Alexander Court manager's fateful call ...

Came across this old post:

" had the manager of the Alexandra Court Hotel not made that fateful phone-call to the police, we may well have never heard of Peter Louis Alphon, and James Hanratty may well have never been linked to the A6 Case, which would possibly have gone down in history as another unsolved murder."

Couldn't be more wrong imo. Had Mr Sims not made that phone call, Alphon would've been of no interest to the police following the finding of the cartridge cases in the Vienna Hotel. Instead they'd have had just one man in their sights - the J Ryan who'd occupied room 24 on the night before the murder.

No Alphon would have meant no conspiracy theories, no incentive for Justice, Foot and the rest of the A6 committee to become involved, no Woffinden, no inquiries, no martyring of James Hanratty, and no maligning of Valerie Storie, Janet Gregsten, Bill Ewer and Dixie France.

All because Mr Sims didn't tell the batty Miss Perkins where to park it.
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  #4718  
Old 04-12-2018, 03:14 AM
OneRound OneRound is offline
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Thanks, Graham. That's helpful and informative as usual. It's a long time since I read Foot and Woffinden and I no longer have the books.

Hanratty insisting on a change of clothes is interesting and might cause those proclaiming his innocence to reflect. As you know, my unease relates to how the man was nailed rather than he was the wrong man.


Have to go out now but will try to post a bit more tonight concerning another aspect of the 2002 appeal in which the Court to my mind were overly supportive of Kleinmann.

Best regards,

OneRound
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  #4719  
Old 04-12-2018, 03:26 AM
OneRound OneRound is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfie View Post
Came across this old post:

" had the manager of the Alexandra Court Hotel not made that fateful phone-call to the police, we may well have never heard of Peter Louis Alphon, and James Hanratty may well have never been linked to the A6 Case, which would possibly have gone down in history as another unsolved murder."

Couldn't be more wrong imo. Had Mr Sims not made that phone call, Alphon would've been of no interest to the police following the finding of the cartridge cases in the Vienna Hotel. Instead they'd have had just one man in their sights - the J Ryan who'd occupied room 24 on the night before the murder.

No Alphon would have meant no conspiracy theories, no incentive for Justice, Foot and the rest of the A6 committee to become involved, no Woffinden, no inquiries, no martyring of James Hanratty, and no maligning of Valerie Storie, Janet Gregsten, Bill Ewer and Dixie France.

All because Mr Sims didn't tell the batty Miss Perkins where to park it.
Hi Alfie - yes, but ... would those finding the cartridge cases at the Vienna have bothered informing the Police if the Police hadn't already been there enquiring about Alphon?

Best regards,

OneRound
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  #4720  
Old 04-12-2018, 03:37 AM
Alfie Alfie is offline
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Good point, OneRound. And, more importantly, where would it have left us A6 obsessives?

The more you think about it, the more you realize just what an unlucky geezer Hanratty was.
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