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Concerns with Robert Paul

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  • Concerns with Robert Paul

    In most every account I have read, Robert Paul comes across as a believable dupe. He is frightened when he sees Cross/Lechmere in Buck's Row, and fearful of gang activity, he tries to give him a wide berth. When Lechmere points out the body, Paul checks for signs of life. While the hands are cold, he thinks that she might still be alive. This is a critical point for the Lechmere/Ripper theorists and the evidence of very recent death is further supported by the testimony of PCs Neil and Mizen. Although Paul is late for work, he agrees to Lechmere's suggestion to go off and search for a PC, perhaps unwittingly aiding Lechmere's impromptu get-away plan.

    But two things bother me: First, in his story to the press hyperlinked below, Paul describes the body as clearly dead for some time. Paul goes as far to essentially state that the condition of the body suggests that the police were lax on their beats. Given other testimony, this cannot possibly be true, regardless of whether one thinks Lechmere is the Ripper, can it?



    Did Paul actually say this or do you think that this was the work of a journalist stirring the pot?

    Secondly - and I confess I did not read the 100+ page Mizen scam thread in its entirety - why did Paul let Lechmere do all the talking to Mizen? Of course, this was exceedingly convenient for Lechmere if he was the murderer, but why would Paul not correct an obvious lie (that they were sent by another PC) to Mizen? Because he was late for work? If Paul really thought that there was a woman bleeding to death who might still be alive, why was he OK with this fact not being mentioned to Mizen? He could have corrected Lechmere's account at the scene to Mizen, or to the press, or at the inquest, but he did not. Any ideas why?
    Last edited by Barnaby; 06-06-2014, 11:10 PM.

  • #2
    making a stir

    Hello Barnaby. How would this story benefit a journalist?

    Cheers.
    LC

    Comment


    • #3
      If she truly were "dead for some time," this would reflect badly on the police. The murder would become even more of a story due to a police incompetence angle.

      Comment


      • #4
        drunk

        Hello Barnaby. Thanks.

        The implication is that the officer missed a round on the beat? I suppose he could offer that, he, too, thought her drunk.

        Cheers.
        LC

        Comment


        • #5
          For what its worth I think the whole Mizen/Cross contention is a storm in a teacup.

          Cross undoubtedly told PC Mizen that he was needed in Bucks Row. Or, he was wanted in Bucks Row, due to there being a body lying in the street.
          PC Mizen merely took the expression "wanted", or "needed", as referring to the needs of another constable.
          All Cross was meaning was that a situation needed his attention, not another policeman.

          I don't see what all the fuss is about, its a simple misunderstanding.
          Regards, Jon S.

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi,

            I have to agree with you, Wickerman. It is a blinf alley, I fear.

            Best wishes.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Barnaby View Post
              If she truly were "dead for some time," this would reflect badly on the police. The murder would become even more of a story due to a police incompetence angle.
              Paul wasn't qualified to know.
              Regards, Jon S.

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi,

                Sometimes in situations like that, hopeful aspirations come to the fore. It perhaps says more for what Mr. Paul hoped that what really existed. Wouldnt we all have wanted to believe that if we had been in his postion?

                Comment


                • #9
                  not significant

                  Hello Jon. I agree. Nor do I find a man with official and unofficial names significant. I had a professor with one of each.

                  Cheers.
                  LC

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    G'day Jon

                    Originally posted by Wickerman View Post
                    For what its worth I think the whole Mizen/Cross contention is a storm in a teacup.

                    Cross undoubtedly told PC Mizen that he was needed in Bucks Row. Or, he was wanted in Bucks Row, due to there being a body lying in the street.
                    PC Mizen merely took the expression "wanted", or "needed", as referring to the needs of another constable.
                    All Cross was meaning was that a situation needed his attention, not another policeman.

                    I don't see what all the fuss is about, its a simple misunderstanding.
                    Stop applying common sense.
                    G U T

                    There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The immediate evening press reports said she had been horribly mutilated and speculated that she had been killed elsewhere and dumped in Bucks Row.
                      Paul giving his account probably after reading those reports - almost certainly while on his way home from work and in the Bucks Row vicinity - allowed himself, I believe, to be influenced by those accounts. He didn't want to look foolish in saying he didn't know whether or not she was dead.
                      I think that is the explanation for his saying that it was obvious the body had been dead for some time. It also shows he was 'suggestable'.

                      Also he comes across in his two press statements as being anti police. That is I think why he blamed the police for not finding her sooner and Mizen for not going immediately.

                      He also 'bigged up' his own role - to give himself more importance. He played the dominant role not Lechmere - despite him bricking it when Lechmere approached him. Paul claimed to have spoken to Mizen, whereas Mizen said he spoke to Lechmere and gave little notice to Paul.
                      I think that due to Paul's hostility to the police he kept his distance from Mizen, but wanted to claim all the credit from the press - who probably paid him for his story.

                      I think this explains the discrepancies and fits the facts as known.

                      Isn't it interesting that pundits here want to re-write the Lechmere-Mizen conversation to fit their own agendas - substituting a version that is not backed up by Lechmere's or Mizen's testimony.
                      Why should there be any fuss over this, when the man involved in this discrepancy was found right by a freshly killed body prior to his raising the alarm, and then gave a name that he is never known to have used?
                      Nothing wrong with this in a murder case is there?
                      Let's go and find a better suspect.
                      Last edited by Lechmere; 06-08-2014, 02:31 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        depends

                        Hello Edward.

                        "Nothing wrong with this in a murder case is there?"

                        Depends on:

                        1. His usual (non-official) name.

                        2. His reason for giving it.

                        3. His coming forward.

                        "Let's go and find a better suspect."

                        Sensible advice. We agree.

                        Cheers.
                        LC

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          We only know what we know.
                          We know that in every recorded capacity he never called himself Cross - and we have a wide range of records to go on, some state-official, some not.
                          Then he turned up - late - at a police station - after Paul had implicated him in his newspaper story - and to high officialdom in a very sensitive business what does he do? He doesn't call himself by his true and slightly unusual name - Lechmere - he calls himself by a commonplace name Cross.

                          But in the wacky world of Ripperology this is to be passed over.
                          Let's hunt for the loony suspect. Far more, err, satisfying.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            What's in a name?

                            Hello Edward. Thanks.

                            Even IF that were correct (we don't know what his friends called him), we have, so far, no good reason for an alias.

                            Nor do we know why Durrell/Darrell/Long was named as she was. Sinister?

                            Cheers.
                            LC

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Lechmere View Post
                              But in the wacky world of Ripperology this is to be passed over.
                              Let's hunt for the loony suspect. Far more, err, satisfying.
                              Edward,

                              This idea of yours , that these murders were committed by someone who was actually at the crime scene, at the time they happened - can't you accept you're simply being a stickler for reality, and get yourself a proper suspect?

                              Comment

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