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  #101  
Old 11-26-2017, 07:17 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
Getting ready for it, perhaps. Of course, lying down, spreading her legs and lifting her skirts is something one might expect a prostitute to do.
Or more likely standing up against a wall and hiking their skirt up, which was the usual way they went about it back then as everybody knows.
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  #102  
Old 11-26-2017, 07:18 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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I'd never seen this word in this context - it seems my childhood was far less innocent than I'd thought.
We had a lot of silly words we used for things when I was growing up.
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  #103  
Old 11-29-2017, 03:28 PM
Bridewell Bridewell is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael W Richards View Post
I would think its a given someone bought Kate drinks, and she is in jail long before any street walkers started their businesses up for the night. Why would someone buy her drinks if not... a) at the very least an acquaintance, or b) he is trying to get her drunk for some reason. My bet would be that he was trying to find out how much she knew, in relation to her claim to her ex landlady about giving the Police a name she believed was the killer at large.
If what you're suggesting is that the person who bought the drinks may have gone on to kill her, I've followed a similar line of thought. The difficulty I encountered with it is:

if the name was his why would she not be giving him a wide berth rather than accepting drinks from him?

conversely, if the name was not his why would he feel the need to wait around and kill her?
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  #104  
Old 12-01-2017, 05:47 AM
Michael W Richards Michael W Richards is offline
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Originally Posted by Bridewell View Post
If what you're suggesting is that the person who bought the drinks may have gone on to kill her, I've followed a similar line of thought. The difficulty I encountered with it is:

if the name was his why would she not be giving him a wide berth rather than accepting drinks from him?

conversely, if the name was not his why would he feel the need to wait around and kill her?
Maybe my line of thinking might resonate with you on that point as well...lets say Kate makes it known that she intends to go to the police with a name, and Friday night meets some men who suggest that she might do better financially if she were to deal with that person rather than the police. She agrees to meet them the next day to talk about it, and they ply her with booze to see what she really knows...how deep does her information go. Maybe because the man she suspects is involved with these same men and in other unlawful acts, and that means lots of other names and contacts. She tells them what she knows, they determine she is a threat...and they ask her to meet with one of them at a chosen point later that night. Somewhere where street traffic is virtually nil, and the surrounding buildings don't hold dozens of people who could be potential eye witnesses. Due to her arrest she arrives late, and with relief places her hand on the chest of the man waiting for her...one of the ones that bought her drinks...telling him she was so glad he waited.

For that to work the man waiting for her would have to have known she was in the City Jail, because a more logical time to meet would have been midnight, not 1:30am. Considering this murder has by far the most police within a close proximity to the crime as it occurs, one wonders about a police tip off. And maybe a cordon off of the area.

What if the man she was going to name was a cop, and the men she meets with are cops too. Plainclothed. Maybe in the espionage racket.
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  #105  
Old 12-03-2017, 11:14 PM
Darryl Kenyon Darryl Kenyon is offline
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Perhaps Jack penetrated the sternum with such force that the blade stuck. he would have been working in virtual darkness and maybe he meant to slice the abdomen open, from top to bottom instead. He might then have either panicked, thinking she might be still alive, maybe he heard a gurgling noise, and stabbed her in a repeated frenzy with his pen knife before releasing the stronger blade. Or just stabbed Martha repeatedly through sheer frustration, before calming down and managing to release the other blade.
This could explain a couple of things with Polly Nichols. The fact that the wounds to her abdomen are low down and seem to be running vertically IE completely missing the chest bone. Secondly the throat being cut for the first time IE instead of just manually strangling Martha, [ yes i believe that's how Jack subdued his victims ], he cut her throat as well, to make sure she was dead.
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  #106  
Old 12-04-2017, 12:34 PM
etenguy etenguy is offline
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Originally Posted by Darryl Kenyon View Post
Perhaps Jack penetrated the sternum with such force that the blade stuck. he would have been working in virtual darkness and maybe he meant to slice the abdomen open, from top to bottom instead. He might then have either panicked, thinking she might be still alive, maybe he heard a gurgling noise, and stabbed her in a repeated frenzy with his pen knife before releasing the stronger blade. Or just stabbed Martha repeatedly through sheer frustration, before calming down and managing to release the other blade.
I think it unlikely that the blade stuck in Martha's sternum, or that he was trying to slice the abdomen open. There is no sign that this was the case. But I do believe that the probability is that it was the ripper who murdered her. I think the idea that he panicked, thinking she was still alive, is plausible - likely even. This may indeed have prompted the use of the other knife.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Kenyon View Post
This could explain a couple of things with Polly Nichols. The fact that the wounds to her abdomen are low down and seem to be running vertically IE completely missing the chest bone. Secondly the throat being cut for the first time IE instead of just manually strangling Martha, [ yes i believe that's how Jack subdued his victims ], he cut her throat as well, to make sure she was dead.
The idea that the ripper started to cut throats instead of relying solely on strangulation, following his experience with Martha Tabram, is compelling to me, for the reasons you state. Learning and refining his approach is logical - as is, to my mind, escalating his mutilations to continue to get satisfaction from his deeds, which needed more extreme acts each time.
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  #107  
Old 12-04-2017, 06:14 PM
Robert St Devil Robert St Devil is online now
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Originally Posted by Michael W Richards View Post

For that to work the man waiting for her would have to have known she was in the City Jail

Doesn't Kelly find out about Kate's incarceration from the grapevine? A woman tells him, I think. Considering the grapevine was slower in telling him of her death, how did this woman come to know so rapidly that Kate had gone to jail? If he didn't leave his lodges that night, it's a good possibility that this woman dossed there too, knew him and told him. Could she have met Kate in the City before her arrest?

Another question. Do you think Kate sobered up too quickly during her time in jail considering that she was knockdown pist drunk? I know that there was rumour of women drinking out of a goofied flask and passing out.
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